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"Box in box" speaker designs?
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<blockquote data-quote="Jack Arnott" data-source="post: 42303" data-attributes="member: 304"><p>Re: "Box in box" speaker designs?</p><p></p><p>Hello Kristian, </p><p>I have some thoughts on this. </p><p></p><p>First, to the Yorkville, it seems this is a wonderful powering system, but not the transport/fit inside idea that fits the OP.</p><p>Coda has some similar amp/processor, built into the sub to power the tops also, but would not fit the money side of it. </p><p>At least as expensive as Outline is my guess. (And not fit inside the sub.)</p><p></p><p>My own that I am working on is a double 18" reflex, with BMS 18's, natch, and a 4594 (coaxial 1.4") on a large horn that would have no enclosure. </p><p>The trick is fitting the mouth of the horn in the box, (large mouth to go low enough to meet 18") but by the time you get to the throat/driver there is much more room to fit around the 18" speaker. </p><p></p><p>Again, this would not fit the needs of the OP. </p><p></p><p>One of my posts of a couple of years ago was for a source for coffin locks, and was for this purpose. </p><p>To go all out I am making the cabinet of aluminum and expandable foam. I have some aluminum cut, but am over a year side tracked. </p><p></p><p>I also have a trailer stage with a built in sound system. </p><p>There is one chamber on the deck of the stage, between the two double fifteens built into the deck, that has a trap door to access the monitors, mics, stands and cords. </p><p>VII was going to have the lows with a removable, lockable top, with these accoutrements inside. </p><p>But I am already past that thought and on to subs with horn chambers, and not enough room for anything to fit inside. </p><p></p><p>About five years ago I was working with Bassmaxx to have a single 15" horn loaded sub, to specific dimensions, with this same thought in mind. </p><p>But instead of my wants/needs it kept getting side tracked to their flavor of the month, or ignored completely so I gave up. </p><p></p><p>I have another wild idea that takes yours one step further and one step back. </p><p>What I call the Rickshaw system. Which is a LF cabinet which is also a trailer, and holds everything, except stands that are strapped to the bottom, and is pulled by a bicycle. </p><p>I have more wild ideas than I do gigs, so this one is on a very slow track. But it will have 8" coaxial tops, and 5" coaxial monitors, and be good for a solo or duo folk group. </p><p>I am picturing a (no longer made) Ederol board, a couple of mics. One version in my mind has it shaped like an egg, with the 8" coaxial tops the *caps* of the egg, that clamp on for transport. </p><p></p><p>I think that the FBT design is the way to go. The mouth should match up quite well with what you want to do for the top. And after the initial build, would be easier to use, and you wouldn't have to worry about keeping the cabinet seal every time you set up. I also like the coaxial tops. One thing, you will not need the top cabinet to be near as big as the 15" Eon, to outperform it. As in, you will not need the space for LF, using it with a sub, and with out the separate horn/cone, a lot of space will be saved. I use my CIARE/BMS hybrid in a .66 cubic foot box, stand alone, for monitors, and talking heads. </p><p>(Don't take this as Eon ragging, I think that for what it was 20 years ago, its price point, and sound, it was a wildly successful speaker.)</p><p></p><p>I am picturing something like the Danley 15" sub, but w the speaker inside, instead of outside the horn. </p><p></p><p>A 10" or 12", maybe even 8" coax, should be perfect. Any of the Euro companies will be a step above the original Eon. CIARE, BMS, B&C, 18 Sound. I am guessing that the FBT uses CIARE or B&C. </p><p></p><p>A good way to get started is with Google Sketchup (free) 3D cadish drawing software. </p><p></p><p>I have been really impressed with pictures/descriptions of Welter Systems designs. Because Art designs the system with so many factors in mind, such as stack height, van/truck packing, the venues they would generally be used in, his clients, etc. </p><p></p><p>And this is really where a proprietary system can shine. Large systems are designed for standard (North American here) truck packs, but when a company does a system this size it is a very generic offering. You have the advantage of starting with what size and weight you want/need, and working from there. First off to fit your trailer, or a specific trailer you might want to do jobs like this. </p><p></p><p>The forementioned Danley 15" is a pretty good overall offering for North American transportation, and fairly ergonomic too. A much better design that his first go with the former company, the td-1 that had almost unusable handles. </p><p></p><p>Whew, wind me up and let me go. Look forward to more good discussion on this. </p><p></p><p>Regards, Jack</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jack Arnott, post: 42303, member: 304"] Re: "Box in box" speaker designs? Hello Kristian, I have some thoughts on this. First, to the Yorkville, it seems this is a wonderful powering system, but not the transport/fit inside idea that fits the OP. Coda has some similar amp/processor, built into the sub to power the tops also, but would not fit the money side of it. At least as expensive as Outline is my guess. (And not fit inside the sub.) My own that I am working on is a double 18" reflex, with BMS 18's, natch, and a 4594 (coaxial 1.4") on a large horn that would have no enclosure. The trick is fitting the mouth of the horn in the box, (large mouth to go low enough to meet 18") but by the time you get to the throat/driver there is much more room to fit around the 18" speaker. Again, this would not fit the needs of the OP. One of my posts of a couple of years ago was for a source for coffin locks, and was for this purpose. To go all out I am making the cabinet of aluminum and expandable foam. I have some aluminum cut, but am over a year side tracked. I also have a trailer stage with a built in sound system. There is one chamber on the deck of the stage, between the two double fifteens built into the deck, that has a trap door to access the monitors, mics, stands and cords. VII was going to have the lows with a removable, lockable top, with these accoutrements inside. But I am already past that thought and on to subs with horn chambers, and not enough room for anything to fit inside. About five years ago I was working with Bassmaxx to have a single 15" horn loaded sub, to specific dimensions, with this same thought in mind. But instead of my wants/needs it kept getting side tracked to their flavor of the month, or ignored completely so I gave up. I have another wild idea that takes yours one step further and one step back. What I call the Rickshaw system. Which is a LF cabinet which is also a trailer, and holds everything, except stands that are strapped to the bottom, and is pulled by a bicycle. I have more wild ideas than I do gigs, so this one is on a very slow track. But it will have 8" coaxial tops, and 5" coaxial monitors, and be good for a solo or duo folk group. I am picturing a (no longer made) Ederol board, a couple of mics. One version in my mind has it shaped like an egg, with the 8" coaxial tops the *caps* of the egg, that clamp on for transport. I think that the FBT design is the way to go. The mouth should match up quite well with what you want to do for the top. And after the initial build, would be easier to use, and you wouldn't have to worry about keeping the cabinet seal every time you set up. I also like the coaxial tops. One thing, you will not need the top cabinet to be near as big as the 15" Eon, to outperform it. As in, you will not need the space for LF, using it with a sub, and with out the separate horn/cone, a lot of space will be saved. I use my CIARE/BMS hybrid in a .66 cubic foot box, stand alone, for monitors, and talking heads. (Don't take this as Eon ragging, I think that for what it was 20 years ago, its price point, and sound, it was a wildly successful speaker.) I am picturing something like the Danley 15" sub, but w the speaker inside, instead of outside the horn. A 10" or 12", maybe even 8" coax, should be perfect. Any of the Euro companies will be a step above the original Eon. CIARE, BMS, B&C, 18 Sound. I am guessing that the FBT uses CIARE or B&C. A good way to get started is with Google Sketchup (free) 3D cadish drawing software. I have been really impressed with pictures/descriptions of Welter Systems designs. Because Art designs the system with so many factors in mind, such as stack height, van/truck packing, the venues they would generally be used in, his clients, etc. And this is really where a proprietary system can shine. Large systems are designed for standard (North American here) truck packs, but when a company does a system this size it is a very generic offering. You have the advantage of starting with what size and weight you want/need, and working from there. First off to fit your trailer, or a specific trailer you might want to do jobs like this. The forementioned Danley 15" is a pretty good overall offering for North American transportation, and fairly ergonomic too. A much better design that his first go with the former company, the td-1 that had almost unusable handles. Whew, wind me up and let me go. Look forward to more good discussion on this. Regards, Jack [/QUOTE]
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