Broadcast Mix tips please?

Rob Spence

Rob Spence

Senior
Jan 11, 2011
897
4
18
Boston Metro North West
www.lynxaudioservices.com
My regular Sunday gig wants to have the local community TV folk over for one evening to tape. This is a swing dance with the dance floor (24x42) between the band (on a 1' high 9x20 stage) and the seated folk at 8 top rounds.

I tried to use house mics one time putting them in the air on the far side of the dance floor but up high to get over the dancers but they didn't sound very good at all and there is only about a foot of space between the stage and the dance floor so no place to set room mics there either.

So, I am thinking I should just provide a mix for the camera guy. I can bring my LS9 to use (and in fact, I will bring it this week anyway due to the band exceeding the capabilities of the house board).

I suspect I should use some auxes to matrix and compress it a little and send it through iso xfmrs to the vidio guy?

So, I guess I am looking for tips on the setting up the LS9 to get a good mix for the video while still letting me mix the event for the punters.

Thanks
 
Re: Broadcast Mix tips please?

Easiest way I know to do this is to do a "board dub" delayed to synch up with a stereo mic (I use a VP88) up high at the rear of the hall. Simply balance the two sets of inputs and you're pretty much good to go.

DR
 
Re: Broadcast Mix tips please?

The problem I have with a stem off of the house mix is that given the size (small) of the room compared to the stage volume, the house mix is very light on drums, bass, and guitar (almost none of these except for some highs from the bass :-) for the strings and fingering sounds).
So, I was thinking I needed a separate mix but am struggling with configuring the busses and feeding them. Would a simple stereo linked pair of prefader busses work (I have never done that but have read about it so that is why I am asking). Maybe add in a VP88 though that would cost another pair (which I have)?
 
Re: Broadcast Mix tips please?

I've done this in the past using a separate stereo aux and mixed a separate mix on headphones directly from the input channels. If the performers are steady level-vise it's pretty close to set and forget, a couple of minor adjustment as you move along, but nothing major. A well set comp on the output keeps it pretty. And I've not used any room mics unless they where requested.
All of this is based on the fact that I give that mix as an extra service, if I was paid to do it I'd split up the channels in two layers of faders and mix the aux-mix post fader on a separate layer for more control and speed.
 
Re: Broadcast Mix tips please?

Rob Spence said:
The problem I have with a stem off of the house mix is that given the size (small) of the room compared to the stage volume, the house mix is very light on drums, bass, and guitar (almost none of these except for some highs from the bass :-) for the strings and fingering sounds).
So, I was thinking I needed a separate mix but am struggling with configuring the busses and feeding them. Would a simple stereo linked pair of prefader busses work (I have never done that but have read about it so that is why I am asking). Maybe add in a VP88 though that would cost another pair (which I have)?
Click to expand...

The thing about doing two jobs at once (house sound and broadcast/recording) is that both need your full attention. You'll be pulled in two directions at once, not a comfortable scenario. The thing about synching up and balancing a good house mic is that what's light in the board mix should be OK in the house. That's the whole point of adding the house mic(s)......to represent what's present in the house but not in the board mix.

KISS
 
Re: Broadcast Mix tips please?

We use this method to boost those same inputs you listed in our house recording. If drums are CH 1-6, patch those to some unused channels such as 24-30. Remove 24-30 from the main outs. Patch them to a bus. Also patch all your other inputs and the house mics except CH 1-6 to the bus. You now have separate control of level, EQ etc of the drum channels in your bus out to the video recording without effecting the FOH mix. You can do this for as many inputs as you have extra channels for. Just do the problem inputs to keep it simple.
Its a bit of PITA but once you set the levels in your phones and verify them with the video people you shouldn't have to change them much.
I'm working on an 01V96 so there may be a more elegant way to do this on your LS9.
 
Re: Broadcast Mix tips please?

A simple solution is to set up a post fade aux mix and put the gains at unity. After you set up the front of house mix you can add or subract what you need to balance for the video feed and it will follow your FOH mix but be balanced for the feed. The key is you are doing one mix now during the show rather than two.
 
Re: Broadcast Mix tips please?

Eric Cagle said:
A simple solution is to set up a post fade aux mix and put the gains at unity. After you set up the front of house mix you can add or subract what you need to balance for the video feed and it will follow your FOH mix but be balanced for the feed. The key is you are doing one mix now during the show rather than two.
Click to expand...

This is essentially the setup I use for simultaneous PA and recording/broadcast mix. Generally, I use the stereo mix on the LS9 for the broadcast mix since that has the high resolution meters, and is the default headphone feed when I want to listen to it. The PA is fed off a pair of post-fade auxes (or two pairs, for a dual PA), and another aux for the subs. One other aspect that needs a little extra "help" is the FX. I find I generally need an extra 3 dB or so in the PA, compared to the broadcast mix. As Eric says, once you get it set up, you just mix the PA, and the other stuff pretty much takes care of itself.

Another enhancement is adding audience mics, only bused to the broadcast mix, of course. Rather than messing around around with a stereo mic at FOH, and trying to figure out how to delay everything else to line up with it, try a pair of shotguns, aimed at the audience, but coincident with the PA. It may be counter-intuitive, but it does work. You can either ride those faders between songs, or set them up on a comp, keyed from the main PA, to automatically duck when the band is playing.

GTD
 
Re: Broadcast Mix tips please?

Rob Spence said:
The problem I have with a stem off of the house mix is that given the size (small) of the room compared to the stage volume, the house mix is very light on drums, bass, and guitar (almost none of these except for some highs from the bass :-) for the strings and fingering sounds).
So, I was thinking I needed a separate mix but am struggling with configuring the busses and feeding them. Would a simple stereo linked pair of prefader busses work (I have never done that but have read about it so that is why I am asking). Maybe add in a VP88 though that would cost another pair (which I have)?
Click to expand...

Rob,

If you've got the setup, Tim P's double mix configuration is probably the best way. If they've got a broadcast mixer, he'll be able to track your fader rides with some coaching.

Another way to skin this cat from the old days is to burn a stereo pair of post fader aux busses, and build a mix on those. That's pretty quick to set up with sends on faders. This mix will track the moves in your main FOH mix, but will be rebalanced input-wise for TV. With a small room, you'll probably have more ambience than you want, so I wouldn't try to pick up more.

Assuming that your base mix is well constructed, I wouldn't play with adding any more compression and the like. Broadcast limiters usually do pretty well with the high crest factor audio we produce in live sound.

A few quick broadcast mix pointers:

  1. When setting up your TV feed, try to listen to your mix after the broadcast limiter. You'll find that these dramatically influence the mix content, and it is wise to balance your mix hearing what they do.
  2. Panning on records, and for broadcast, is way more dramatic than in most live sound. It is ok to pan heavily for space.
  3. Granny on her ancient tube tv has only 2" speakers with nothing below 200Hz or above 10kHz. You've got to nail the midrange of the mix for her, and you can't have really haystacked low end.
  4. If you don't want your kick drum to get lost entirely for tiny TV speakers, add some 800-900Hz to give the beater some "pap."
  5. Same principle with bass guitar. Make it all about the instrument's midrange.
 
Re: Broadcast Mix tips please?

A radio broadcasters cynical reply is: TV people only notice audio when it isn't there...

However, as audio guys who take pride in doing the best they now how at any event I would suggest the following course of action: Talk directly with the TV remote production people and discuss what they would like and explain what resources you have and are willing to provide. Once this is done the implementation is relatively easy.

The production crew may come with only camera with single inputs or a full live truck or something in between. As for me, at live music events so far they have always been happy with an XLR line level main mix output. If I needed to go the extra mile, I would put up a condenser or two on stage and feed these to a separate small mixer along with the main mix and say here ya go adjust it to your taste.

On most events that I participate in that have full TV production they take a board feed plus utilize their own mics as the situation calls for.
 
Re: Broadcast Mix tips please?

Geoff Doane said:
Another enhancement is adding audience mics, only bused to the broadcast mix, of course. Rather than messing around around with a stereo mic at FOH, and trying to figure out how to delay everything else to line up with it, try a pair of shotguns, aimed at the audience, but coincident with the PA. It may be counter-intuitive, but it does work. You can either ride those faders between songs, or set them up on a comp, keyed from the main PA, to automatically duck when the band is playing.

GTD
Click to expand...

That is a pretty creative and useful function of ducking. I will add that to my arsonal of techniques. One never knows when that might be handy.
 
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