Cello Pickup Augmentation

A

Andrew Kierum

Freshman
Oct 7, 2013
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Hello, I'm a cellist for a group. We don't have money for expensive equipment, however we do have a sound team with a good board, and we are able to run some effects. I have a fishermen pickup that goes into the bridge, and is attached to a direct box that goes to the main board. However when it comes out it sounds harsh and flappy (probably due to the vpm on the lower strings). Are their any knobs or equipment you would suggest running it through so it can sound sweet and beautifull? (I promise it's not my playing ;))

we we have tried putting a special mike I front of the cello, but I move and turn the cello so much that the volume isn't consistent, also I hit it with my bow.
 
Re: Cello Pickup Augmentation

Have you spoken to the sound team about this or is it just your impression? If not, they may be making it sound the way it does on purpose and it's a difference of opinion.

If they're trying to make it better, but can't, the first thing to check is that the signal is any good to begin with, presumably the actual cello sounds right so the next thing is the pickup and DI. Reset the channel EQ on the console, PFL the channel, and listen to the signal using a familiar pair of headphones. If it sounds bad at this stage, you know where to go looking for your problem.

Are you using an active DI?

What specifically is the equipment?

There is this, but it won't help if the problem is somewhere else.

Radial PZ-DI Orchestral Acoustic Direct Box

What was the "special" mic you used? How did it sound? It might be worth trying a mic again to verify that the combination of you, your instrument, and the sound team, is capable of getting a good sound. If the problems only happen when you change from a mic to a pickup/DI then you have your problem. A Beta57a is nice on cello, but obviously it's not the only mic that would work.

Chris
 
Re: Cello Pickup Augmentation

Andrew,

First, it doesn't matter how good the team or the mixer are, if the instrument pickup or mic isn't doing a good job. I suspect you're using the Fishman C-100 pickup, one of the least pleasant sounding pickups for strings I've used.

There are a few recommendations I can make.

Fishman C-200 bridge:

C-200 Concert Series Cello Pickup - Fishman Transducers, Inc.
I haven't personally used this brand, but I have used the LR Baggs version on fiddle for many years.

I am loving this next pickup, and it can be removed and reinstalled by the player if needed. The Realist Acoustic Transducer for Cello:

David Gage String Instruments

Very nice sound.

Next, if you want to stay with a microphone, switch to a good clip on condenser. I recommend the Audio Technica ATM350, or the DPA 4011C for cello.

ATM350 Cardioid Condenser Clip-On Microphone || Audio-Technica US

DPA Microphones :: Close-miking a cello with condenser microphones

The ATM350 would clip right onto the side of the bridge. Don't worry about muting effect, it's minimal, and you make up for it with the close mic position anyway.

The last thing to recommend is to not use regular DI boxes, or even specialty ones like the LR Baggs-I can't answer to the one Chris recommends, I actually haven't tried that Radial model. If you must, use a very good DI like the Radial or Countryman. I have Countrymans, and they will produce an acceptable final sound for the bridge equipped fiddle.

What I really prefer and recommend is the ART tube preamps. The "original" or the MP/C:

ART Pro Audio

These two have higher input impedances than the other versions, and provide a better match to the pickups. The "tube sound"(there is a subjective factor involved too) only helps, IMO.

Best regards,

John
 
Re: Cello Pickup Augmentation

John Halliburton said:
Andrew,

First, it doesn't matter how good the team or the mixer are, if the instrument pickup or mic isn't doing a good job. I suspect you're using the Fishman C-100 pickup, one of the least pleasant sounding pickups for strings I've used.

There are a few recommendations I can make.

Fishman C-200 bridge:

C-200 Concert Series Cello Pickup - Fishman Transducers, Inc.
I haven't personally used this brand, but I have used the LR Baggs version on fiddle for many years.

I am loving this next pickup, and it can be removed and reinstalled by the player if needed. The Realist Acoustic Transducer for Cello:

David Gage String Instruments

Very nice sound.

Next, if you want to stay with a microphone, switch to a good clip on condenser. I recommend the Audio Technica ATM350, or the DPA 4011C for cello.

ATM350 Cardioid Condenser Clip-On Microphone || Audio-Technica US

DPA Microphones :: Close-miking a cello with condenser microphones

The ATM350 would clip right onto the side of the bridge. Don't worry about muting effect, it's minimal, and you make up for it with the close mic position anyway.

The last thing to recommend is to not use regular DI boxes, or even specialty ones like the LR Baggs-I can't answer to the one Chris recommends, I actually haven't tried that Radial model. If you must, use a very good DI like the Radial or Countryman. I have Countrymans, and they will produce an acceptable final sound for the bridge equipped fiddle.

What I really prefer and recommend is the ART tube preamps. The "original" or the MP/C:

ART Pro Audio

These two have higher input impedances than the other versions, and provide a better match to the pickups. The "tube sound"(there is a subjective factor involved too) only helps, IMO.

Best regards,

John
Click to expand...

John, the absolute best I have found is the Schertler contact mic. It is actually a microphone rather than a pickup, produces a balanced signal, and is completely stable and great sounding. As a matter of fact, it acts so much like a microphone attached to the body of the instrument, that it really doesn't need any outboard processing or pre-amp that I recommend NOT buying the Schertler pedal.
 
Re: Cello Pickup Augmentation

Jay Barracato said:
John, the absolute best I have found is the Schertler contact mic. It is actually a microphone rather than a pickup, produces a balanced signal, and is completely stable and great sounding. As a matter of fact, it acts so much like a microphone attached to the body of the instrument, that it really doesn't need any outboard processing or pre-amp that I recommend NOT buying the Schertler pedal.
Click to expand...

Agreed, it's not bad, just not my preference.

Regardless of other's experiences, I also am not fond of the putty system of adhering the mic to the soundboard.

Admittedly, I also have to train musicians who use clip on mics to not move them once we've dialed in their channel.

Best regards,

John
 
Re: Cello Pickup Augmentation

Andrew,

I'd recommend finding a non-marring, temporary mount that you can use on your cello.

I found this company with a quick Google search. DPA Microphones also makes a holder that sits between the bridge and the end of the strings, and can accommodate a small electret condenser type of microphone (omni, lav type).

It may also be helpful to watch videos of other cellists and how they work the mic.
 
Re: Cello Pickup Augmentation

John Halliburton said:
Chris,

Did I walk right by you this Summer up in Derry at the Fleadh and not know it?

Best regards,

John
Click to expand...

Nope, I was in Belfast at rehearsals for Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. The closest we would have been was when you landed at the airport. :)~:-)~:smile: I haven't been in Derry for a while actually, lots on there this year.

Without meaning to hijack the thread too much, how about upright bass?

Chris
 
Re: Cello Pickup Augmentation

Chris Nixon said:

Nope, I was in Belfast at rehearsals for Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. The closest we would have been was when you landed at the airport. :)~:-)~:smile: I haven't been in Derry for a while actually, lots on there this year.

Without meaning to hijack the thread too much, how about upright bass?

Chris
Click to expand...

I've done the clip on mics on bass bridges too, no problem. I would also expect the same good results with the Realist pickups for bass as I've had with the cello version.

An SM57 wrapped in foam stuffed under the tailpiece has worked for many for a long time.

Best regards,

John

PS Flew in from Paris, landed in Dublin, and rented a Renault. My wife and daughter love riding on Irish roads...as long as they've taken some Dramamine. ;>)
 
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