Client thinks it sounds 'weird'

Lisa Lane-Collins

Sophomore
Dec 9, 2012
270
0
16
Adelaide, Australia
Called in today to fix a problem with someone else's installation.

The problem was the sub intermittently dropping out. At first we through the speak on connectors coming out of the amp were to blame, the more I messed around back there the worse it got, now I was losing the tops for the main set of speakers (being a restaurant, there were a couple of other zones that were unaffected by this problem). The sound would work fine until we closed the amp cupboard door at which point it would drop out entirely. After a while I realised that the problem was loose RCA connections coming out of a buzz box inserted between the PC and the zone controller. I tightened those up as best I could without a shifter spanner and that seemed to fix it. All sounded fine at low volumes, some of the zoning was weird (little restaurant speakers on the same zone as the main PA speakers) so I changed that, some of the outputs on the zone controller appeared to be going nowhere, either to second inputs on bridged amps, or inputs on a behringer ultracurve that, according to the internal routing, and the 2 cables plugged into outputs were also going nowhere. Every cable that seemed redundant I pulled out.

I made one other change so they could get better quality and volume from a remote sound source. Instead of running the PC in stereo through the buzzbox, I dropped one side of the stereo image so I could use the other side of the buzz box for the remote sound source (previously running through one of those little car audio cylinder buzz kill things). I got improved volume from my remote sound source, and the main speakers appeared to be working well with the PC when I left although it never got tested at volume.

My client thinks it sounds weird now, pressed for further description he said it was 'thin'. So, I'm wondering a couple of things, could this be because I abandoned half the output of the PC? Could it be an issue with the ultra curve? Could it be to do with the speakon connections (which I'm still suspicious off because, instead of being speaker wire, they look like this picture here.) Whoever did the installation twizzled some standard speaker wire onto these hooks in order to attach the speakon connector.

WP_20140915_004(1)[1].jpg
 
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Re: Client thinks it sounds 'weird'

"Weird and thin" is how I might describe a polarity reversal on one side of the system, could that have happened when you were working on the speakon connectors?

Chris
 
Re: Client thinks it sounds 'weird'

In a multi room install It might matter where the customer is standing when listening. Might be hearing bass from two zones at same time opposite polarity?

JR
 
Re: Client thinks it sounds 'weird'

when you dropped half of the audio did you sum the stereo image of the music/source? If not I know some engineers who will pan their mixes for produced music. When you drop one side or the other you can loose most of a guitar or bass and could make it sound weird and thin.
 
Re: Client thinks it sounds 'weird'

when you dropped half of the audio did you sum the stereo image of the music/source? If not I know some engineers who will pan their mixes for produced music. When you drop one side or the other you can loose most of a guitar or bass and could make it sound weird and thin.
Agreed.

It is FAR better to sum and then split the signal than to use 1 channel for one area and the other channel for the other area.

You are going to miss all sorts of music in both rooms if you don't sum them together.

HOWEVER DO NOT do a hard sum You MUST go thorough a resistive split or you will cause all sorts of other problems-distortion and possible damage to the PC if you just do a hard sum.
 
Re: Client thinks it sounds 'weird'

Agreed.

It is FAR better to sum and then split the signal than to use 1 channel for one area and the other channel for the other area.

You are going to miss all sorts of music in both rooms if you don't sum them together.

HOWEVER DO NOT do a hard sum You MUST go thorough a resistive split or you will cause all sorts of other problems-distortion and possible damage to the PC if you just do a hard sum.

The only more egregious felony is throwing L on pin 2 and R on pin 3 then shoving it in an XLR input.
 
Re: Client thinks it sounds 'weird'

I never hear that word used, but I did here someone saying it sounded "wonky".

I immediately broke out my professional sound reinforcement encyclopedia and looked up the word.

I was surprised to find it in there with the definition, ( a-hole )
 
Re: Client thinks it sounds 'weird'

I think I might have had success :)

Heeding Ivan's warning to NOT sum without some kind of resistance I made use of a small mixer the venue has. I must say I've never paid stereo much heed and didn't expect there to be so much of a difference. Definitely sounds varying degrees of warmer with the stereo summed to mono. The client is noticing the difference when the music is all set real quiet, ambient background noise during the day. I suppose a lack of low end would be most apparent when the volume is low.

Now he says it is better but still not quite like it was, I'm guessing the Behringer Ultra drive was also doing Something to the main speakers and since it's had the motherboard replaced, it's not doing that something anymore. We're locked out at the moment, gonna wait till the great amp relocating operation to reset to factory default and program from scratch.

Also for the sake of science, threw the main speakers out of phase, just to confirm, they are definitely in phase at the moment.

Goofy observation, client spends half the time 'listening' to the sound Behind the main speakers. *shakes head*.

And figured out why he's calling me in, the contract with the hire company ran out, and the gear is still there, and he's not rocking that boat. Is that a common thing with long term hire? Get 6 years in and let the client keep it?
 
Re: Client thinks it sounds 'weird'

I think I might have had success :)




Also for the sake of science, threw the main speakers out of phase, just to confirm, they are definitely in phase at the moment.
As member of the "polarity police" you did not "throw the speakers out of phase" you flipped the polarity.

Phase involves a time element-polarity is simply switching the + and -.

OR if you did "throw them out of phase" what time did you use? What is the distance between them? Where was the intended listening position etc?

Did you try other times to adjust the phase?

Phase is not a simple thing. Polarity is.

Sorry-but just being picky and proper. There IS a difference.
 
Re: Client thinks it sounds 'weird'

polarity, definitely polarity. Concede I don't know enough to open the phase can of worms in that room, save to say, it probably has issues. And that they would be quirks the client is used to.