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Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
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<blockquote data-quote="Kimo Lewis" data-source="post: 26046" data-attributes="member: 497"><p>Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration</p><p></p><p>Hold on here... It appears Bennett has put words in my mouth... Let's restate exactly what was said.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I never said I "do not believe that drive selection is paramount". What I said was the passive crossover has to be considered "also". </p><p></p><p>To over state and over simplify speaker components is simply not accurate. And yes Bennett, you did over simplify by saying, "The driver is everything". If this were so, then it would be easy for the DIY world to make a "well behaved" coax wedge. I don't see anyone putting forth any ideas yet, so it must be harder than simply picking "well behaved driver" and putting it in a wedge shaped box. The fact is, it is not a simple matter to design a good crossover. It is difficult to have a "well behaved" system without considering all aspects of the speaker system. And you certainly can not have "well behaved" systems without measuring the whole of the speaker system, otherwise, how would you know if it was "well behaved"? Then you need to redesign with measured data in mind, and reiterate the process, especially for a active or passive crossover, something I stated in my very first post. </p><p></p><p>One driver may be "well behaved" in bass reflex box, but could be completely unstable in a bass horn. One compression driver could measure and sound "good" on one horn and the opposite could be true with the same driver on a different horn. In fact, I have polar measurements of this very thing, one driver on two different horns are not the same. </p><p></p><p>I don't even know what you mean by "well behaved". Is that some marketing jargon? </p><p></p><p>Here are 9 drivers, please tell me which ones are "well behaved" and why.</p><p><a href="http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Delta_12LFA" target="_blank">http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Delta_12LFA</a></p><p><a href="http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/12G40E.pdf" target="_blank">http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/12G40E.pdf</a></p><p><a href="http://bmsspeakers.com/cone-speaker-compression-driver/bms-neodymium-cone-speakers/bms-neodymium-cone-low-mid/bms-12n620-neodymium-cone-driver/12n620-cone-driver-introduction/" target="_blank">http://bmsspeakers.com/cone-speaker-compression-driver/bms-neodymium-cone-speakers/bms-neodymium-cone-low-mid/bms-12n620-neodymium-cone-driver/12n620-cone-driver-introduction/</a></p><p><a href="http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Beta_12CX" target="_blank">http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Beta_12CX</a></p><p><a href="http://bmsspeakers.com/cone-speaker-compression-driver/bms-coaxial-transducers/bms-coaxial-neodymium-transducer/bms-12cn680-coaxial-transducer/12cn680-coaxial-transducer-intro/" target="_blank">http://bmsspeakers.com/cone-speaker-compression-driver/bms-coaxial-transducers/bms-coaxial-neodymium-transducer/bms-12cn680-coaxial-transducer/12cn680-coaxial-transducer-intro/</a></p><p><a href="http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/12KX.pdf" target="_blank">http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/12KX.pdf</a></p><p><a href="http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/CP350Ti.pdf" target="_blank">http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/CP350Ti.pdf</a></p><p><a href="http://www.eminence.com/speakers/driver-detail/?model=PSD2002" target="_blank">http://www.eminence.com/speakers/driver-detail/?model=PSD2002</a></p><p><a href="http://bmsspeakers.com/cone-speaker-compression-driver/neodymium-compression-drivers/bms-1-inch-neodymium-compression/bms-4552nd-compression-driver/4552nd-hf-driver-introduction/" target="_blank">http://bmsspeakers.com/cone-speaker-compression-driver/neodymium-compression-drivers/bms-1-inch-neodymium-compression/bms-4552nd-compression-driver/4552nd-hf-driver-introduction/</a></p><p></p><p>Case in point, attached are some measurements of a prototype coax of my own design with a 6.5" woofer and a tweeter mounted in front of the woofer. I started this project last December to see if I could figure out a coax "hot spot" and possibly a small line array.</p><p></p><p>All things are equal except the crossover. One graph shows the on axis response of:</p><p></p><p>- active biamped 12 db/oct BW crossover with two notch filters, </p><p>- passive crossover with two pole low pass at 1500 hz and two pole high pass at 2000 hz and two notch filters</p><p>- active biamped 12 db/oct LR crossover with two notch filters.</p><p></p><p>I have also included the polar responses and THD of the two active biamped crossovers and notch filters. There is a striking difference with the polar responses and the sound of the two crossovers are very different. Once again, the only change to the complete system was the crossover, and to hear the two systems, you wouldn't guess they were the same speakers in the same box.</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH]149647[/ATTACH][ATTACH]149648[/ATTACH][ATTACH]149649[/ATTACH][ATTACH]149650[/ATTACH][ATTACH]149651[/ATTACH][ATTACH]149652[/ATTACH][ATTACH]149653[/ATTACH]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kimo Lewis, post: 26046, member: 497"] Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration Hold on here... It appears Bennett has put words in my mouth... Let's restate exactly what was said. I never said I "do not believe that drive selection is paramount". What I said was the passive crossover has to be considered "also". To over state and over simplify speaker components is simply not accurate. And yes Bennett, you did over simplify by saying, "The driver is everything". If this were so, then it would be easy for the DIY world to make a "well behaved" coax wedge. I don't see anyone putting forth any ideas yet, so it must be harder than simply picking "well behaved driver" and putting it in a wedge shaped box. The fact is, it is not a simple matter to design a good crossover. It is difficult to have a "well behaved" system without considering all aspects of the speaker system. And you certainly can not have "well behaved" systems without measuring the whole of the speaker system, otherwise, how would you know if it was "well behaved"? Then you need to redesign with measured data in mind, and reiterate the process, especially for a active or passive crossover, something I stated in my very first post. One driver may be "well behaved" in bass reflex box, but could be completely unstable in a bass horn. One compression driver could measure and sound "good" on one horn and the opposite could be true with the same driver on a different horn. In fact, I have polar measurements of this very thing, one driver on two different horns are not the same. I don't even know what you mean by "well behaved". Is that some marketing jargon? Here are 9 drivers, please tell me which ones are "well behaved" and why. [URL]http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Delta_12LFA[/URL] [URL]http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/12G40E.pdf[/URL] [URL]http://bmsspeakers.com/cone-speaker-compression-driver/bms-neodymium-cone-speakers/bms-neodymium-cone-low-mid/bms-12n620-neodymium-cone-driver/12n620-cone-driver-introduction/[/URL] [URL]http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Beta_12CX[/URL] [URL]http://bmsspeakers.com/cone-speaker-compression-driver/bms-coaxial-transducers/bms-coaxial-neodymium-transducer/bms-12cn680-coaxial-transducer/12cn680-coaxial-transducer-intro/[/URL] [URL]http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/12KX.pdf[/URL] [URL]http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/CP350Ti.pdf[/URL] [URL]http://www.eminence.com/speakers/driver-detail/?model=PSD2002[/URL] [URL]http://bmsspeakers.com/cone-speaker-compression-driver/neodymium-compression-drivers/bms-1-inch-neodymium-compression/bms-4552nd-compression-driver/4552nd-hf-driver-introduction/[/URL] Case in point, attached are some measurements of a prototype coax of my own design with a 6.5" woofer and a tweeter mounted in front of the woofer. I started this project last December to see if I could figure out a coax "hot spot" and possibly a small line array. All things are equal except the crossover. One graph shows the on axis response of: - active biamped 12 db/oct BW crossover with two notch filters, - passive crossover with two pole low pass at 1500 hz and two pole high pass at 2000 hz and two notch filters - active biamped 12 db/oct LR crossover with two notch filters. I have also included the polar responses and THD of the two active biamped crossovers and notch filters. There is a striking difference with the polar responses and the sound of the two crossovers are very different. Once again, the only change to the complete system was the crossover, and to hear the two systems, you wouldn't guess they were the same speakers in the same box. [ATTACH=CONFIG]149647.vB5-legacyid=1117[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]149648.vB5-legacyid=1118[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]149649.vB5-legacyid=1119[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]149650.vB5-legacyid=1120[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]149651.vB5-legacyid=1121[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]149652.vB5-legacyid=1122[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]149653.vB5-legacyid=1123[/ATTACH] [/QUOTE]
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