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Damping Factor - Actual listening tests?
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<blockquote data-quote="Peter Morris" data-source="post: 145766" data-attributes="member: 652"><p>Re: Damping Factor - Actual listening tests?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hi John,</p><p></p><p>I was trying to put things in simple terms for the broader audience.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff">“How could a speaker accelerate faster than it should?” </span>A simple example is the result of the pressure from the bass speaker impacting on the midrange cone or the HF diaphragm. Perhaps I would have been better to use your words <span style="color: #0000cd">“when the driving signal changes direction, and want's the speaker cone motion to stop or change direction” </span>for the sake of the explanation.</p><p></p><p>I was trying to avoid talking about underdamped and over damped response of a mechanical/electrical system, complex impedances and all that stuff. </p><p></p><p>With regard to controlling the motion of the cone it depends on whether the cone is mass loaded or pressure loaded – reflex speakers have mass as the dominate part of the equation while horn speakers are dominated by the air pressure on the cone. This translates typically to about 90 degree less phase shift with respect to the driving signal for the horn … as you implied, it get complicated. </p><p></p><p>Yes I know about Toms servo drive speakers, but I have never actually seen one – FWIW in a past life I made / designed many industrial servo drive systems with feedback loops, some electrical and some hydraulic; most were used in production line cut to length applications, we even made a low frequency hydraulic / servo device with a seismic mass for oil exploration. … somewhat more powerful than Tom's sub but with a very limited band width.</p><p></p><p>…. And yes I did read Jason question, but he went on to say “<span style="color: #0000cd">Now that i understand this it sounds like something that could be 100% counteracted with EQ. I had visions of the effect being something more dynamic and time dependent the way people talk about DF.” </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000cd"></span></p><p>What I was trying to explain is that it is more complicated (like his second sentence). The dampening provided by the amplifiers controls the speaker cone’s motion to some extent and EQ will not correct for that.</p><p></p><p>I completely agree with your<span style="color: #0000CD"> "hypothetical null test" </span>statement and like you, I wouldn't expect to find much ... I did say that "<span style="font-size: 10px">For me in 2015 dampening factor is moot ..." </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p>Apologies for the poor explanation, I hope this adds a bit more clarity. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />~<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile :-)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />~:smile:</p><p></p><p>Regards </p><p></p><p>Peter</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Peter Morris, post: 145766, member: 652"] Re: Damping Factor - Actual listening tests? Hi John, I was trying to put things in simple terms for the broader audience. [COLOR=#0000ff]“How could a speaker accelerate faster than it should?” [/COLOR]A simple example is the result of the pressure from the bass speaker impacting on the midrange cone or the HF diaphragm. Perhaps I would have been better to use your words [COLOR=#0000cd]“when the driving signal changes direction, and want's the speaker cone motion to stop or change direction” [/COLOR]for the sake of the explanation. I was trying to avoid talking about underdamped and over damped response of a mechanical/electrical system, complex impedances and all that stuff. With regard to controlling the motion of the cone it depends on whether the cone is mass loaded or pressure loaded – reflex speakers have mass as the dominate part of the equation while horn speakers are dominated by the air pressure on the cone. This translates typically to about 90 degree less phase shift with respect to the driving signal for the horn … as you implied, it get complicated. Yes I know about Toms servo drive speakers, but I have never actually seen one – FWIW in a past life I made / designed many industrial servo drive systems with feedback loops, some electrical and some hydraulic; most were used in production line cut to length applications, we even made a low frequency hydraulic / servo device with a seismic mass for oil exploration. … somewhat more powerful than Tom's sub but with a very limited band width. …. And yes I did read Jason question, but he went on to say “[COLOR=#0000cd]Now that i understand this it sounds like something that could be 100% counteracted with EQ. I had visions of the effect being something more dynamic and time dependent the way people talk about DF.” [/COLOR] What I was trying to explain is that it is more complicated (like his second sentence). The dampening provided by the amplifiers controls the speaker cone’s motion to some extent and EQ will not correct for that. I completely agree with your[COLOR=#0000CD] "hypothetical null test" [/COLOR]statement and like you, I wouldn't expect to find much ... I did say that "[SIZE=2]For me in 2015 dampening factor is moot ..." [/SIZE] Apologies for the poor explanation, I hope this adds a bit more clarity. :)~:-)~:smile: Regards Peter [/QUOTE]
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