Darwin install award goes to....

Shane Presley

Shane Presley

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Jan 12, 2011
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Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.bssproductions.com
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Re: Darwin install award goes to....

Shane Presley said:
So I'm surfin around YouTube looking to see what others have done about putting man lifts in church spaces as to not ruin the decor or get in tight spaces etc...
I've found some gems... You decide.
Craziest thing I have done in a while. - YouTube


New Lighting Truss Install at Faith Baptist Church, Huntsville ON - YouTube

But I think this is the winner...
Christ Church UCC JBL VRX Array Install - YouTube
Click to expand...

The last one had me scared before he even got to the VRX. No fall arrest, climbing while carrying objects rather than using a rope, insufficient work platform. Nothing about this makes me feel secure about the suspension of 250lbs overhead.
 
Re: Darwin install award goes to....

Tim McCulloch said:
The last one had me scared before he even got to the VRX. No fall arrest, climbing while carrying objects rather than using a rope, insufficient work platform. Nothing about this makes me feel secure about the suspension of 250lbs overhead.
Click to expand...

In addition to everything else I would have wanted outriggers on the that height of single stack scaffolding.
 
Re: Darwin install award goes to....

Shane Presley said:
So I'm surfin around YouTube looking to see what others have done about putting man lifts in church spaces as to not ruin the decor or get in tight spaces etc...
I've found some gems... You decide.
Craziest thing I have done in a while. - YouTube


New Lighting Truss Install at Faith Baptist Church, Huntsville ON - YouTube

But I think this is the winner...
Christ Church UCC JBL VRX Array Install - YouTube
Click to expand...

The first and second ones are probably safer than they look. In the first one the ladder is used solely for access through a hatch and not to extend the height of the lift. In the second, while the balance of the truss is a bit odd, there is precedent for using scissor lifts as material lifts. In fact, JLG offers factory installed panel and pipe racks for their scissor lifts. Provided that the lift wasn't overloaded, it was probably perfectly fine.

The third video, however, is chock full of safety violations. Scaffold too tall for the base, not fully planked, missing cross bracing, missing anti-rack bars, missing guard rails, no toe rail or tool tethers, no fall protection while climbing, etc.
 
Re: Darwin install award goes to....

Shane Presley said:
So I'm surfin around YouTube looking to see what others have done about putting man lifts in church spaces as to not ruin the decor or get in tight spaces etc...
I've found some gems... You decide.
Craziest thing I have done in a while. - YouTube


New Lighting Truss Install at Faith Baptist Church, Huntsville ON - YouTube

But I think this is the winner...
Christ Church UCC JBL VRX Array Install - YouTube
Click to expand...

We rented some scaffolding for installing a fan in my house a few weeks back. We didn't really follow all the rules, but at least the scaffolding was complete and not missing parts/too high for the base.
 
Re: Darwin install award goes to....

Rob Timmerman said:
In the second, while the balance of the truss is a bit odd, there is precedent for using scissor lifts as material lifts. In fact, JLG offers factory installed panel and pipe racks for their scissor lifts. Provided that the lift wasn't overloaded, it was probably perfectly fine.
Click to expand...

In the second I was more concerned about WHAT he was hanging, not so much as to how he was hanging it.... TV aerial with bars of parcans...yaaaay
 
Re: Darwin install award goes to....

It's amazing that people will do these things, but even more amazing that they are willing to document them.. then even MORE amazing that they'll share them with the world!

and in #1 and 3 a single manlift would have been a better option. they make lifts that will fit up through a hatch, and a lift would have been way better than the 6 or 7? levels of scaffold with no fall arrest..

What would the guy in #1 do if he found out after getting to the top of the ladder that his creaky lift had a slow hydraulic leak and was about to drop his ladder?

in #3 I also couldn't find the part where they actually hoisted the speakers, so we can only assume that they put the camera down for the 'unsafe' part lol

Jason
 
Re: Darwin install award goes to....

Jason Lavoie said:
It's amazing that people will do these things, but even more amazing that they are willing to document them.. then even MORE amazing that they'll share them with the world!

and in #1 and 3 a single manlift would have been a better option. they make lifts that will fit up through a hatch, and a lift would have been way better than the 6 or 7? levels of scaffold with no fall arrest..

What would the guy in #1 do if he found out after getting to the top of the ladder that his creaky lift had a slow hydraulic leak and was about to drop his ladder?

in #3 I also couldn't find the part where they actually hoisted the speakers, so we can only assume that they put the camera down for the 'unsafe' part lol

Jason
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I am not defending #3, but in many cases there is no way to get a man lift into the room. Maybe a single Genie-but not one for 2 people.

Yes there are a number of things wrong and not safe.

But since the video got posted-I would assume nobody got hurt.
 
Re: Darwin install award goes to....

Ivan Beaver said:
I am not defending #3, but in many cases there is no way to get a man lift into the room. Maybe a single Genie-but not one for 2 people.

Yes there are a number of things wrong and not safe.

But since the video got posted-I would assume nobody got hurt.
Click to expand...
Yup. Having worked in plenty of old churches, rarely are you able to get a real lift in. Stairs are an effective barrier against using lifts. Except the new track-based JLG zoomer. Envious. So envious.
Even if you could, it's highly unlikely the floor could support it. A single-man able to reach this height weighs 1,000#. Add 300# of man and gear, then lean forward...and that's a lot of weight on a very small surface area. And frankly, this is more stable than a single-man at full extension. Good Lord, those things are scary. Not sure how effective the outriggers they're using here are at that height, though.

Safety rails are nice, in theory...but they don't always fit. In this case, the 1/2-scaff top portion barely fits under the proscenium; railings certainly would not. So the 1/2-scaff serves as a sort of safety-railing. Why is it missing a crossbrace? No idea. Probably forgot it at the shop. Not defending; just explaining.

Scariest part? When they moved and re-used the 2nd highest platform. Seriously. Get some more platforms. And a friggin' rope...watching that guy build that tired ME out.

Also...where did that 2nd platform go? They put it in, then took it out? Why? Oh, right...they needed it to get the rig up, PLATFORM BY PLATFORM. Seriously. ROPE.

If you haven't spent a lot of time on scaff, I can understand how this could frighten you. But once you get used to it, it's really not that bad. That being said...this is a little extreme.
 
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Re: Darwin install award goes to....

Mike Caldwell said:
In addition to everything else I would have wanted outriggers on the that height of single stack scaffolding.
Click to expand...

I thought that, too, initially. I had a lack of outriggers on my list of scary stuff. I went back and watched parts of the video again... Later in the video there is a brief glimpse of outriggers.
 
Re: Darwin install award goes to....

Jonathan Kok said:
Safety rails are nice, in theory...but they don't always fit. In this case, the 1/2-scaff top portion barely fits under the proscenium; railings certainly would not. So the 1/2-scaff serves as a sort of safety-railing. Why is it missing a crossbrace? No idea. Probably forgot it at the shop. Not defending; just explaining.

Scariest part? When they moved and re-used the 2nd highest platform. Seriously. Get some more platforms. And a friggin' rope...watching that guy build that tired ME out.

Also...where did that 2nd platform go? They put it in, then took it out? Why? Oh, right...they needed it to get the rig up, PLATFORM BY PLATFORM. Seriously. ROPE.

If you haven't spent a lot of time on scaff, I can understand how this could frighten you. But once you get used to it, it's really not that bad. That being said...this is a little extreme.
Click to expand...

No safety rails means fall protection is required, which means you need an appropriate tie-off point (rated for >5000 lbs). There are ways of getting the needed working height with scaffold safely, but this wasn't one of them.

Just because it seems to be standard practice doesn't mean it's safe. That scaffold would be red-tagged on any jobsite that conducts scaffold inspections (so anything in NYC, and anywhere that actually follows OSHA standards fully).
 
Re: Darwin install award goes to....

Jason Lavoie said:
It's amazing that people will do these things, but even more amazing that they are willing to document them.. then even MORE amazing that they'll share them with the world!
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Tim McCulloch said:
The last one had me scared before he even got to the VRX. No fall arrest, climbing while carrying objects rather than using a rope, insufficient work platform. Nothing about this makes me feel secure about the suspension of 250lbs overhead.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the tools strewn all over the platform...

Non-safety-related question for install #3: is VRX an appropriate choice for that kind of space? I'd have thought the pattern was way too wide to consider it.
 
Re: Darwin install award goes to....

Hello

Number 3 makers put selection of music, which attempted to make it hilarious. In a way it was, too. The same way as in those 100+ years old disaster fotographs - like steam engine derailed - where everybody and his son was in picture looking seriously important.
These days we have tv-programs where people openly demonstrate their stupidity. This is not different. Only in internet.
 
Re: Darwin install award goes to....

Jeff Carter said:
Non-safety-related question for install #3: is VRX an appropriate choice for that kind of space? I'd have thought the pattern was way too wide to consider it.
Click to expand...

I've found that a center flown 3-4 box VRX array (properly deployed, that is) works relatively well. I actually think that is the intended market for those boxes, to an extent.
 
Re: Darwin install award goes to....

Jeff Carter said:
Non-safety-related question for install #3: is VRX an appropriate choice for that kind of space? I'd have thought the pattern was way too wide to consider it.
Click to expand...
I thought the same thing. It's a bit hard to tell from the video, but it seems a bit too high for my liking as well. Judging from their installation practices, I wonder if they even bothered to model this room with a computer simulation program.
 
Re: Darwin install award goes to....

Arthur Skudra said:
I thought the same thing. It's a bit hard to tell from the video, but it seems a bit too high for my liking as well. Judging from their installation practices, I wonder if they even bothered to model this room with a computer simulation program.
Click to expand...
Why waste time modeling----------------

I mean if it "rocks" and has the right name on it, then who cares if the coverage is good-or if there is excess energy going into the ceiling and bouncing around and so forth.

It is all about what it sounds like in the showroom isn't it? NOT the actual place it will be used????????????????????????????? Why does that matter?

Flame suite on.
 
Re: Darwin install award goes to....

Ivan Beaver said:
Why waste time modeling----------------

I mean if it "rocks" and has the right name on it, then who cares if the coverage is good-or if there is excess energy going into the ceiling and bouncing around and so forth.

It is all about what it sounds like in the showroom isn't it? NOT the actual place it will be used????????????????????????????? Why does that matter?

Flame suite on.
Click to expand...

It's all about the check clearing.
 
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