DigiCo shut down - need insight from regular users.

P

Philip Parker

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Dec 14, 2022
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We have an SD9 that was not shut down “properly” recently. The console powered back on and is fully functional.

It is installed at a performance space and the main tech’s method for each show is to piggy back all new sessions from the previous show session instead of using a template. They are adamant that the board is buggy and is in a constant state of almost failing, however it never does.

Has anyone ever experienced a Digico SD not coming back after a power cut off or improper shutdown?

We toured for years with an SD12 at foh and SD9 at monitors. Never had any problems whatsoever. The boards lived in trailers for months of constant use. I’m beginning to think that the main issue is that the PA routing is unclear and the only way to ensure that everything works for a show is to use the previous session.

If something happens to this session, the tech would not be able to set up the board again for a show.

Would love to hear from DigiCo users about reliability and best practices. Is it really possible to break one of these things by not doing the shut down sequence? What is actually happening during shut down? The venue should probably be using a template correct?
 
Our SD9 has been flawless, but we follow recommended protocol (proper shutdown, reload show file at start up, starting new gigs from scratch - or at least from a template).

About a year ago I had an SD12 go down in the middle of a set due to a bad UPS, the desk came back up seemingly okay but after closer inspection the channel routing had shifted by one, causing some weirdness with stereo inputs feeding stereo iem mixes. The artist only had a few songs left as I was able to clean things up on the fly enough that they could finish. After their set we were loading the headliners show file anyways.

I would assume that by never performing a proper shutdown and boot up one would be risking a similar scenario (show file corruption) which could consequences ranging from minor (as I experienced) to major.

What is going on with the PA that makes it so hard to create a file from scratch? Could a partial load into a fresh show file be used to get around this (ie partial load the matrix section only)?
 
Spenser Hamilton said:
Our SD9 has been flawless, but we follow recommended protocol (proper shutdown, reload show file at start up, starting new gigs from scratch - or at least from a template).

About a year ago I had an SD12 go down in the middle of a set due to a bad UPS, the desk came back up seemingly okay but after closer inspection the channel routing had shifted by one, causing some weirdness with stereo inputs feeding stereo iem mixes. The artist only had a few songs left as I was able to clean things up on the fly enough that they could finish. After their set we were loading the headliners show file anyways.

I would assume that by never performing a proper shutdown and boot up one would be risking a similar scenario (show file corruption) which could consequences ranging from minor (as I experienced) to major.

What is going on with the PA that makes it so hard to create a file from scratch? Could a partial load into a fresh show file be used to get around this (ie partial load the matrix section only)?
Click to expand...
The board functions fine despite one improper shut down, no issues. However, the house tech is insisting that no body else work on the board because they don't know how to set it up for the PA if anything should happen. The PA is two tops with two flown subs, both in stereo, with an additional channel for front fills. 5 channels total. I could figure that routing out in about 10 mins, however it is not my department and therefor there are politics involved.

The board exists in an educational facility that has an Audio Tech program where the students are required to complete 3 semesters of live sound courses. The tech said in a meeting recently that "no students should be touching the DigiCo." - and I about lost it. This tech also teaches the most advanced live sound section, but only progresses the students to an Allen & Heath Qu-24. None of the exiting students get any time on the SD, which is sitting literally 50 feet from their classroom.

There is this struggle going on regarding this board, and I feel like is unfounded. Ive spoken at length to the people who sell these things, and been told what I already know - they don't just break from a random improper shut down incident. Should you trash the session and start a new one from a template? Absolutely. The tech is convinced this thing is is a ticking time bomb that will stop working at any second - and I hate to say it but I think it is really due to lack of experience and training. They've never been out on on a national tour with this type of gear and seen what it was designed to do.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
 
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This just reinforces now why I don't trust new hires that claim they went to "school for sound"

A proper education would involve unpatching absolutely everything from the mic thru to the speakers, erasing the board to factory blank start condition and as a whole class together putting the system back to show-capable state. Rinse & Repeat.

That's the skill level I need in tech crew right now and I am just not finding that!
 
A company I freelanced at in the 90's got finangeled into taking on 2 "apprentices" from Trebas (could have been Full Sail) for festival season. The one I got seemed like a decent kid. No bragging or know it all stuff.
When he, I , and 4 others unboxed the PM-3K, his eyes just about popped out "What the hell is THAT?"
When I had him on stage to ring out the wedges, he had never used them before "We use headphones". Ever seen The Boss or Sting with headphones on stage?
What do you mean, we work until 3:00 AM ? Yes, then we load the trucks.....
I asked if he wanted to mix a song... When he saw me pull 2 faders down "Oh God, don't do that to me"
He did OK I'm told at a DJ gig with an 8-Top, 4-Sub rig the next weekend.
Never saw him again. The other one didn't even make it through his first night.
Chris.
 
To answer the OP's question...

DiGiCo support's first step has essentially always been to load a new clean show file before starting trouble shooting. Apparently, there's also ways where if you saved a corrupted show file and then loaded it, issues can still persist. Very annoying. That said, I've never actually had a show file issue crop up this way. Always ended up being a hardware issue when I've had to call them, but clearly this sort of thing is a regular problem they're trained to deal with.

Build a new show file from the factory reset condition, then power cycle and reload the show file from disk instead of using the persistent state at start up. If issues persist after that point, email support. Good luck.

As far as templates vs. old show files go... I've never really had the impression that one is better than the other besides the potential for these alleged corrupt file bugs to crop up. I'm an embedded systems guy at my day job. It's ridiculous to me that this sort of corruption is even possible. Again though, I've never seen one. Always been a hardware issue in my experience.
 
Chris Hindle said:
A company I freelanced at in the 90's got finangeled into taking on 2 "apprentices" from Trebas (could have been Full Sail) for festival season. The one I got seemed like a decent kid. No bragging or know it all stuff.
When he, I , and 4 others unboxed the PM-3K, his eyes just about popped out "What the hell is THAT?"
When I had him on stage to ring out the wedges, he had never used them before "We use headphones". Ever seen The Boss or Sting with headphones on stage?
What do you mean, we work until 3:00 AM ? Yes, then we load the trucks.....
I asked if he wanted to mix a song... When he saw me pull 2 faders down "Oh God, don't do that to me"
He did OK I'm told at a DJ gig with an 8-Top, 4-Sub rig the next weekend.
Never saw him again. The other one didn't even make it through his first night.
Chris.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it ain't all glamour and guts and glory. ;)
 
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