Hi, just wondering if anyone has gone through the process of setting up these boxes with a DR260? Would save me a lot of time if someone could pass on the settings.
Thanks!
Thanks!
DR 260 Settings for Mackie S408/S410 RIG
- Thread starter John Brauer
- Start date
Re: DR 260 Settings for Mackie S408/S410 RIG
I always thought that loudspeaker was very interesting, didn't know it was passive... passive loudspeaker and no DSP settings = fail, IMHO. At the very least you want a real crossover between the mains and subs, since the LPF in the subs is probably not very steep (and Mackie claims it's at 180Hz!), and there is no HPF. You can probably squeeze significantly more performance out of that rig with a little TLC.
Unfortunately, the spec sheet for both products gives absolutely none of the information needed to even make a conjecture as to what kind of processing might be appropriate, and what kind of performance gains might be realized. The frequency response graph for the sub seems to indicate the stated 40Hz LF corner is almost -15dB from the level at 70Hz... but it's 1/3 octave smoothed! WTF? Why bother giving specs at all? That is hardly what one might call state of the art LF response, more of a mid-bass cabinet that doesn't go high enough to be used as a mid-bass cabinet.
You might try the Mackie Forum: http://forums.mackie.com
John, where are you located?
I always thought that loudspeaker was very interesting, didn't know it was passive... passive loudspeaker and no DSP settings = fail, IMHO. At the very least you want a real crossover between the mains and subs, since the LPF in the subs is probably not very steep (and Mackie claims it's at 180Hz!), and there is no HPF. You can probably squeeze significantly more performance out of that rig with a little TLC.
Unfortunately, the spec sheet for both products gives absolutely none of the information needed to even make a conjecture as to what kind of processing might be appropriate, and what kind of performance gains might be realized. The frequency response graph for the sub seems to indicate the stated 40Hz LF corner is almost -15dB from the level at 70Hz... but it's 1/3 octave smoothed! WTF? Why bother giving specs at all? That is hardly what one might call state of the art LF response, more of a mid-bass cabinet that doesn't go high enough to be used as a mid-bass cabinet.
You might try the Mackie Forum: http://forums.mackie.com
John, where are you located?
Re: DR 260 Settings for Mackie S408/S410 RIG
Australia.
I ended up setting the LPF on the subs @ 120Hz and the same for the HPF on the tops. I experiment with different levels of overlap, but this seemed to sound the best. I used 24dB/octave LR filters. I will run the x-over frequency phase inversion, delay setting test when I can as well.
I'm doing this all by ear so I'm keeping things conservative at the moment.
As for speaker tunings, I will wait until I have the oppurtunity to get the boxes outside and hopefully get my hands on smaart as well.
Australia.
I ended up setting the LPF on the subs @ 120Hz and the same for the HPF on the tops. I experiment with different levels of overlap, but this seemed to sound the best. I used 24dB/octave LR filters. I will run the x-over frequency phase inversion, delay setting test when I can as well.
I'm doing this all by ear so I'm keeping things conservative at the moment.
As for speaker tunings, I will wait until I have the oppurtunity to get the boxes outside and hopefully get my hands on smaart as well.
Re: DR 260 Settings for Mackie S408/S410 RIG
Bummer, AUS is a little far to drive for me.
If you do manage to get Smaart and take a measurement or two, post it and we can probably get you closer. You won't need a fancy mic, but you will need to have it in a reasonable place.
Bummer, AUS is a little far to drive for me.
If you do manage to get Smaart and take a measurement or two, post it and we can probably get you closer. You won't need a fancy mic, but you will need to have it in a reasonable place.
Re: DR 260 Settings for Mackie S408/S410 RIG
That sounds about right. One of the biggest complaints about the S408 is that it's really lacking in low/low-mid balls. So sub coverage needs to be higher than the usual 100Hz. Could be why the low pass on the sub Bennett was complaining about is so high for the combo. Of course, the subs don't do very well down low either. 40Hz is listed in the manual as the -10dB point, which means it's probably a 50Hz speaker at best.
Greg
That sounds about right. One of the biggest complaints about the S408 is that it's really lacking in low/low-mid balls. So sub coverage needs to be higher than the usual 100Hz. Could be why the low pass on the sub Bennett was complaining about is so high for the combo. Of course, the subs don't do very well down low either. 40Hz is listed in the manual as the -10dB point, which means it's probably a 50Hz speaker at best.
Greg
Re: DR 260 Settings for Mackie S408/S410 RIG
Mackie recommends a 150Hz LR LPF on the subs when using an external xover. Odd thing is they don't publish a recommendation for the HPF on the tops. 150Hz makes sense when you hear the lack of low mids in the 408, but when you send it to the 410s it just sounds muddy. Makes the system balance tricky when your not 100% confident with system parametric (yet).
Come on smaart....
Mackie recommends a 150Hz LR LPF on the subs when using an external xover. Odd thing is they don't publish a recommendation for the HPF on the tops. 150Hz makes sense when you hear the lack of low mids in the 408, but when you send it to the 410s it just sounds muddy. Makes the system balance tricky when your not 100% confident with system parametric (yet).
Come on smaart....
Tim Weaver
Senior
Re: DR 260 Settings for Mackie S408/S410 RIG
The easiest way to fix this problem is to spread your X-O points out a little. Go with 140 for the subs and 160 for the tops and see if that clears up the mud. If not, just keep spreading.
If you don't have measurement tools, this is a quick and dirty fix.
The easiest way to fix this problem is to spread your X-O points out a little. Go with 140 for the subs and 160 for the tops and see if that clears up the mud. If not, just keep spreading.
If you don't have measurement tools, this is a quick and dirty fix.
Re: DR 260 Settings for Mackie S408/S410 RIG
The electronic response, maybe (yes with LR filters at identical level with identical frequency). The acoustic response? Who knows (probably nobody right now). One of those things you can do by ear all right, but with your eyes (barring acoustic measurement) not at all.
What crossover frequencies was I using here? Hard to tell, acoustically... as you can see, loudspeaker response just isn't that clean. Different rolloffs, different peaks and dips, different levels...
The electronic response, maybe (yes with LR filters at identical level with identical frequency). The acoustic response? Who knows (probably nobody right now). One of those things you can do by ear all right, but with your eyes (barring acoustic measurement) not at all.
What crossover frequencies was I using here? Hard to tell, acoustically... as you can see, loudspeaker response just isn't that clean. Different rolloffs, different peaks and dips, different levels...
Re: DR 260 Settings for Mackie S408/S410 RIG
P.S. I am not holding that screen capture up as an excellent example, it just happens to be the only set of traces I have stored that looks like a crossover.
P.S. I am not holding that screen capture up as an excellent example, it just happens to be the only set of traces I have stored that looks like a crossover.
Re: DR 260 Settings for Mackie S408/S410 RIG
Bennett, you don't think you can get the Audi going fast enough to skim across the water down to Australia?
John could always ship the cabs to my house so we can SMAART them in my basement, my TX9/QW3f rig is still going great.....have not made one change since you set it up!
Bennett, you don't think you can get the Audi going fast enough to skim across the water down to Australia?
John could always ship the cabs to my house so we can SMAART them in my basement, my TX9/QW3f rig is still going great.....have not made one change since you set it up!
Re: DR 260 Settings for Mackie S408/S410 RIG
Funny... I've got 4 days off in Australia coming up next week. Where in Australia are you?
Evan
Funny... I've got 4 days off in Australia coming up next week. Where in Australia are you?
Evan