EV Deltamax DML1152 cabinets with JBL drivers - how to approach the seller?

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Daniel Postilnik

Junior
Jan 14, 2011
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San Francisco, CA
I've been greedily eyeing a CL post for a bunch of EV deltamax 15" two-way cabinets, figured that with four I'd be good to go with a pair above a pair of SRX728s per side.

Then I read closer and saw that the original components have been replaced with a JBL e140 ("because it's louder") on the lows and a JBL 2441 on the highs.

The JBL e140 gets 2 more db for sensitivity than the original EVX-155, but is rated at 400 watts as opposed to the EV's 600 (and the EV seems like a much more durable driver overall).

According to a post on the psw forums, the JBL 2441 is an overweight piece of crap that might go for some money in Asia.

The buyer wants $1200 a pair, $1500 with truckpack cases. I was going to try to get down to $1250 a pair with cases, but given the components, should I demand less and replace the components myself? The EVX-155 cost around $300 or a bit less per woofer.

All input appreciated, thanks. Here's the post itself: http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/msg/2264472525.html
 
Re: EV Deltamax DML1152 cabinets with JBL drivers - how to approach the seller?

The cabs are technically EV cabs, I believe he had them built by R&R cases who built the EV deltamax cabs at the time. Unless someone chimes in here, I believe the cab's response would be affected by using a non-stock cone driver. Also isn't an E 140 a instrument speaker? Shouldn't it be a 2206 or something similar?

I was looking at them too, but without the stock components, I'm going to pass at that price. I just missed a stock pair with controller for less then he's asking.
 
Re: EV Deltamax DML1152 cabinets with JBL drivers - how to approach the seller?

Daniel, don't bother with these. Due to their age, you can typically find the REAL deltamax cabs for next to nothing these days. Why bother with copies that don't have the correct drivers and therefore wouldn't work correctly with the processor anyway? It's really not worth your while, let some other sucker pay too much for these copies.
 
Re: EV Deltamax DML1152 cabinets with JBL drivers - how to approach the seller?

Jeff Babcock said:
you can typically find the REAL deltamax cabs for next to nothing these days.
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I'd love to find some used. They're hard to find now. I'd love to find a pair of the 212 models. I can't afford the qrx 212's.
 
Re: EV Deltamax DML1152 cabinets with JBL drivers - how to approach the seller?

My philosophy with 'modified' or 'custom' stuff is to assess what modifications were made. If the modifications make sense, then maybe the person that did them was actually intelligent, and did them for a reason to make the cab better.

In the vast majority of situations, however, the person that did the modifications had no clue, and just thought that it was better based on intuition (or lack of it) and not engineering. Like all the people that put Eminence Kilomax drivers in their subs, just because they have a high power rating.

Usually these people do many other things wrong than just put the wrong speaker in the box, leading to all kinds of unknown possible problems with the speakers that might not pop up until later.

In those cases, I never walk away, I run.
 
Re: EV Deltamax DML1152 cabinets with JBL drivers - how to approach the seller?

I don't know about the later boxes, but the early DeltaMax systems used an EV DL15X woofer, not the EVX series. The DL15X fifteens were reasonably efficient but essentially an extended pole piece variation of the EVM 2-1/2" voice coil speakers. Although the EVs were loud and had good midbass response, the JBLs would probably provide a little bit more "thump" in a two-way application, and do it with less mid cut and bass boost.

Except...

the whole reason for having a DeltaMax (back in the day) was to use the analog controller (and its sense lines) so you could run the living snot out of those guys without them expoloding into magnetized shrapnel. The controller provides limiting and equalization to the specific original drivers.

Replacing the high and low drivers and eliminating the controller makes those "DeltaMaxes" just another pile of generic trap boxes. Overpriced ones, in this particualr case.
 
Re: EV Deltamax DML1152 cabinets with JBL drivers - how to approach the seller?

The E140 was rated at a 100db sensitivity at one watt.......but all of the E series speakers had their sensitivity ratings measured at a band pass from 500hz to 2500hz. At a realistic low frequency range it would most likely be about 97 or 98 db the same as the EV driver that is if the Delta Max ever had the EVX drivers loaded in them! At this point there "just another pile of generic trap boxes" not that they would be bad single 15 two inch traps but they should not be called a DeltaMax or ever used with a DeltaMax controller. If you could get them cheep enough the 2441's could be sold for any where from $400 to $600 and pair depending on condition. Since the diaphragms have been changed to 2445's they most likely would go for the $400 ish range if they look decent and the throats have not cracked. If you wanted to reload them with the original DH1A drivers they go for about 100 each working used. Buy them cheap, cash in the 2441's and E140's, do you a little research, do you back a favor, reload them with neo components and have decent single 15 trap boxes they could be used over your SRX subs or for small two way applications.
 
Re: EV Deltamax DML1152 cabinets with JBL drivers - how to approach the seller?

Mike Caldwell said:
The E140 was rated at a 100db sensitivity at one watt.......but all of the E series speakers had their sensitivity ratings measured at a band pass from 500hz to 2500hz. At a realistic low frequency range it would most likely be about 97 or 98 db the same as the EV driver that is if the Delta Max ever had the EVX drivers loaded in them! At this point there "just another pile of generic trap boxes" not that they would be bad single 15 two inch traps but they should not be called a DeltaMax or ever used with a DeltaMax controller. If you could get them cheep enough the 2441's could be sold for any where from $400 to $600 and pair depending on condition. Since the diaphragms have been changed to 2445's they most likely would go for the $400 ish range if they look decent and the throats have not cracked. If you wanted to reload them with the original DH1A drivers they go for about 100 each working used. Buy them cheap, cash in the 2441's and E140's, do you a little research, do you back a favor, reload them with neo components and have decent single 15 trap boxes they could be used over your SRX subs or for small two way applications.
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Both Mikes here are missing the point. It does not matter what individual driver specifications are in this situation. It is the system of the drivers, crossover, and box that makes the speaker what it is. Anything other than the original components will not provide original performance, even if the replacements are arbitrarily rated 'better' by someone's opinion or individual specifications.

And a box without original components is no longer worth anything. This thread should not be titled "EV Deltamax DML1152 cabinets with JBL drivers" but instead "someone's idea of a custom trap box loaded with JBL drivers".
 
Re: EV Deltamax DML1152 cabinets with JBL drivers - how to approach the seller?

The DeltaMax cabinet is nothing more than a direct loaded single fifteen and a two inch driver on a 60 x 40 horn. Reloaded as is with the JBL components does not make it a bad trap box, it's not a Deltamax anymore but it's not necessarily bad. Using the the original controller would be a VERY bad idea. As they are with a DSP and some proper tuning they would work very well, assuming all components are good, with proper power. In the hands of a good engineer with "old fashioned" analog processing they would still make worthy speakers. With the component choices today and some research there are a lot of good options for them and I dare say maybe even better than the original.

Should they be listed for sale as DeltaMax cabinets, no.
Are these cabinets totally worthless, no.
Overpriced, yes.
 
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Re: EV Deltamax DML1152 cabinets with JBL drivers - how to approach the seller?

This is all great input everyone, thanks a bunch. They definitely seem overpriced after considering that they can't be used with the controller.

I'm going to start a new thread about what I may end up getting instead of these: EAW LA215s....
 
Re: EV Deltamax DML1152 cabinets with JBL drivers - how to approach the seller?

"Replacing the high and low drivers and eliminating the controller makes those "DeltaMaxes" just another pile of generic trap boxes. Overpriced ones, in this particualr case."

Silas, what part of this quote is me "missing the point"? I think we are all agreeing the reloaded boxes are not DeltaMaxes in any way, shape, or form except for the wood enclosure's shape. I also attempted to correct the OP's assumption an EVX woofer would get him back to spec -- and he never mentioned the controller, which is part of what makes a DeltaMax a DeltaMax.
 
Re: EV Deltamax DML1152 cabinets with JBL drivers - how to approach the seller?

Mike Smith said:
"Replacing the high and low drivers and eliminating the controller makes those "DeltaMaxes" just another pile of generic trap boxes. Overpriced ones, in this particualr case."

Silas, what part of this quote is me "missing the point"? I think we are all agreeing the reloaded boxes are not DeltaMaxes in any way, shape, or form except for the wood enclosure's shape. I also attempted to correct the OP's assumption an EVX woofer would get him back to spec -- and he never mentioned the controller, which is part of what makes a DeltaMax a DeltaMax.
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Hi Mike, I mentioned that you missed the point because you were explaining how another driver would/could be better. While it might be a different/better driver, when combined with that particular box, there's no telling how the results will be, unless you modeled it. And even if it models better, as you said, any DSP or controllers are now thrown out the window.

Additionally, if it does model better, the chances of 'average Joe' coming up with better DSP tunings than EV did are slim to none, so even though his resulting system is better, it's still not going to be, because the guy that made the modifications doesn't know how to measure and compensate for the differences.

I guess, I would rather not contemplate how a box might be changed, even if I know what the results will be. If I need a louder box, I get one; I don't consider getting louder components for the one I have.

The only time I consider modifying an existing speaker is if there are other speakers in the same series with, say, a different horn pattern. I'd have no problem switching out horns as long as I made the necessary crossover and DSP changes to compensate. Because replacing a horn is cheaper than replacing the box.

So, I hope you have no hard feelings or anything. Sometimes I'm brutally 'to the point'.
 
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