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Extension thread from " An Open List of Console Feature Requests" Thread
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<blockquote data-quote="Jack Arnott" data-source="post: 148281" data-attributes="member: 304"><p>Re: Extension thread from " An Open List of Console Feature Requests" Thread</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sometimes separation is not needed, what is needed is blending. Take the example of the background singers. </p><p>(Oh, by the way, before I go further, I have masturbated with the best of them. Not only with stereo. One time I took every single piece of processing/FX I had to a gig, and made a point to use every single channel. Sometimes it has been in an empty house knowingly for my only benefit. So when I talk about it, I know about it first hand. I move forward.)</p><p></p><p>A technique for balancing the back up vocals is to use stereo headphones, and AFL the back up vocals. Especially if you are not intimately familiar with who is singing what part, this can be very instructive on how to set the levels. Then it should be presented to the audience in mono. </p><p></p><p>Note that balance and separation are very different. There is no need for separation. Separation is when one vocal is 12 db louder than the other, and the other is heard vaguely somewhere from the other side of the room. </p><p></p><p>When musicians hear three part harmony, they instinctively can pick out the parts. When I hear it on the radio, I don't analyze it, I just take the overall effect, and roll with it. Groove with it. But when I mix it, I consciously listen to spectral tone, not notes. This can be misleading, as the notes will "separate" themselves. What is needed is balance. </p><p></p><p>I think two thinks can happen here. One, when people go to "see" someone they know, they want to hear their friend, even if they are the 4th chair violin. </p><p>So many times they are hearing their friend, and just don't know it, unless they are completely front and center. </p><p></p><p>(Possibly boring personal anecdote warning/ one time I was mixing a 12 piece band in a 2k seat theater. This was a solo performer, and debuting his most recent CD. He played almost exclusively solo, but had all the musicians from the album for a small series of shows. There are a couple of ways this can go. Sometimes the soloists' accoustic guitar is as much a prop as anything, and just blended in with the band. In this case, it was not. It was his voice, then his guitar, then the rest of the band. After the show the electric guitarists' grandmother came over and read me the riot act because she came to see her grandson, and she couldn't hear every note he played. I suffered her politely, and got a nod and a wink from one of the management types who was nearby. I of course was never hired by that guitarist again, but that was OK. That night, my bread was buttered by the solo artist, and the most important separation I needed was between him and the band.\possibly boring personal anecdote\)</p><p></p><p>Another thing that happens is that when one tries to get too much separation, then volume escalation happens. Note; this has as much or more to do with the band than the person mixing the sound. To my mind, when things are good, all that needs to be done is the channels turned on, and minimal futtzing. </p><p></p><p>In my thoughts an example of not needing separation is some of the Scorpions songs with three guitars. I like when the third guitar just goes chuga chuga chuga on the same note, for an extended period, while the other guitars do some meedly meedly, or crunch and stop, and the bass boings around on notes complimenting the other guitars. This interspersed with vocals. I can't always hear the chuga chuga chuga, sometimes it's only uga uga uga, and sometimes it's eclipsed, but it is always there, and when it is covered, I still know it's there, and when it comes back, I know that it was never gone. </p><p>Separation is not needed, layers are what is important.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jack Arnott, post: 148281, member: 304"] Re: Extension thread from " An Open List of Console Feature Requests" Thread Sometimes separation is not needed, what is needed is blending. Take the example of the background singers. (Oh, by the way, before I go further, I have masturbated with the best of them. Not only with stereo. One time I took every single piece of processing/FX I had to a gig, and made a point to use every single channel. Sometimes it has been in an empty house knowingly for my only benefit. So when I talk about it, I know about it first hand. I move forward.) A technique for balancing the back up vocals is to use stereo headphones, and AFL the back up vocals. Especially if you are not intimately familiar with who is singing what part, this can be very instructive on how to set the levels. Then it should be presented to the audience in mono. Note that balance and separation are very different. There is no need for separation. Separation is when one vocal is 12 db louder than the other, and the other is heard vaguely somewhere from the other side of the room. When musicians hear three part harmony, they instinctively can pick out the parts. When I hear it on the radio, I don't analyze it, I just take the overall effect, and roll with it. Groove with it. But when I mix it, I consciously listen to spectral tone, not notes. This can be misleading, as the notes will "separate" themselves. What is needed is balance. I think two thinks can happen here. One, when people go to "see" someone they know, they want to hear their friend, even if they are the 4th chair violin. So many times they are hearing their friend, and just don't know it, unless they are completely front and center. (Possibly boring personal anecdote warning/ one time I was mixing a 12 piece band in a 2k seat theater. This was a solo performer, and debuting his most recent CD. He played almost exclusively solo, but had all the musicians from the album for a small series of shows. There are a couple of ways this can go. Sometimes the soloists' accoustic guitar is as much a prop as anything, and just blended in with the band. In this case, it was not. It was his voice, then his guitar, then the rest of the band. After the show the electric guitarists' grandmother came over and read me the riot act because she came to see her grandson, and she couldn't hear every note he played. I suffered her politely, and got a nod and a wink from one of the management types who was nearby. I of course was never hired by that guitarist again, but that was OK. That night, my bread was buttered by the solo artist, and the most important separation I needed was between him and the band.\possibly boring personal anecdote\) Another thing that happens is that when one tries to get too much separation, then volume escalation happens. Note; this has as much or more to do with the band than the person mixing the sound. To my mind, when things are good, all that needs to be done is the channels turned on, and minimal futtzing. In my thoughts an example of not needing separation is some of the Scorpions songs with three guitars. I like when the third guitar just goes chuga chuga chuga on the same note, for an extended period, while the other guitars do some meedly meedly, or crunch and stop, and the bass boings around on notes complimenting the other guitars. This interspersed with vocals. I can't always hear the chuga chuga chuga, sometimes it's only uga uga uga, and sometimes it's eclipsed, but it is always there, and when it is covered, I still know it's there, and when it comes back, I know that it was never gone. Separation is not needed, layers are what is important. [/QUOTE]
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