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Junior Varsity
Feedback on sctive 18" sub + 3-way top combos. RCF v QSC v JBL v EV v Yamaha
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<blockquote data-quote="Art Welter" data-source="post: 216644" data-attributes="member: 52"><p>Hi Nathan,</p><p></p><p>Asking questions about products, rather than providing "<a href="https://soundforums.net/community/forums/product-reviews.20/" target="_blank">Product Reviews"</a> means you posted in the wrong forum.</p><p></p><p>That said: The difference between 1600 and 2000 watts is very little, a doubling of power is only 3dB.</p><p></p><p>A good answer to the marketing questions was given years ago on this forum in the "Junior Varsity" section, by David Gunness, who's company also happens to make some of the best speaker systems possible. See his answer in post #18 to my question in post #11:</p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://soundforums.net/community/threads/compact-power-subs-for-stick-mains.10138/[/URL]</p><p></p><p></p><p><em>"OK, here we go. Once more into the breach. The reason I hate this is that in the process of explaining how our industry does specs, it appears that I am justifying practices that I actually don't agree with. </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>One of the reasons I don't like peak SPL specs is that "SPL", at least in textbooks, is defined as the RMS sound pressure (referenced to 2x10-5 pascals). So theoretically, there is no such thing as "peak SPL". OK, maybe that's too pedantic: we could interpret it as "peak sound pressure, expressed in units of SPL". Let's go with that.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>The point is that "Peak SPL" as it is treated in the professional loudspeaker industry, is peak pressure, not "highest reading of an SPL meter" (SPL meters only measure RMS; even if there is a peak hold function, it is the "highest rms reading observed", and that includes the selected averaging time). Anyway, peak pressure is calculated using the peak voltage of the amplifier. With non-powered systems, the assumption is that a user will supply an amplifier with twice the power rating of the loudspeaker, and that the peak voltage of the amplifier is 3 dB higher than that, because amplifiers are rated with sine waves. Hence, the peak pressure should be 6 dB higher than the maximum continuous SPL.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Keep in mind that maximum continuous SPL is a survival rating, not a useability rating. Of course what would be more useful is "maximum useable SPL", but that would be signal dependent and would have to be subjectively determined. So we're stuck with a calculated value that serves only as a point of comparison: "This one's red line is 2 dB higher than this one's red line." "</em></p><p></p><p>Since that time, Meyers Sound introduced <em>M</em>-<em>Noise</em>, a signal that promotes standardized measurement of a loudspeaker system's maximum linear output.</p><p>Unfortunately, until all manufacturers start using the same test procedures, you have to either compare products yourself, or rely on the opinions of those who have used the products you are considering that have made comparisons between them.</p><p></p><p>And there are still some difficulties with M-Noise, Ivan Beaver of DSL (another company that also happens to make some of the best speaker systems possible..) outlines them in posts # 6 &10:</p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,176681.msg1631996.html#msg1631996[/URL]</p><p></p><p>Cheers,</p><p></p><p>Art</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Art Welter, post: 216644, member: 52"] Hi Nathan, Asking questions about products, rather than providing "[URL='https://soundforums.net/community/forums/product-reviews.20/']Product Reviews"[/URL] means you posted in the wrong forum. That said: The difference between 1600 and 2000 watts is very little, a doubling of power is only 3dB. A good answer to the marketing questions was given years ago on this forum in the "Junior Varsity" section, by David Gunness, who's company also happens to make some of the best speaker systems possible. See his answer in post #18 to my question in post #11: [URL unfurl="true"]https://soundforums.net/community/threads/compact-power-subs-for-stick-mains.10138/[/URL] [I]"OK, here we go. Once more into the breach. The reason I hate this is that in the process of explaining how our industry does specs, it appears that I am justifying practices that I actually don't agree with. One of the reasons I don't like peak SPL specs is that "SPL", at least in textbooks, is defined as the RMS sound pressure (referenced to 2x10-5 pascals). So theoretically, there is no such thing as "peak SPL". OK, maybe that's too pedantic: we could interpret it as "peak sound pressure, expressed in units of SPL". Let's go with that. The point is that "Peak SPL" as it is treated in the professional loudspeaker industry, is peak pressure, not "highest reading of an SPL meter" (SPL meters only measure RMS; even if there is a peak hold function, it is the "highest rms reading observed", and that includes the selected averaging time). Anyway, peak pressure is calculated using the peak voltage of the amplifier. With non-powered systems, the assumption is that a user will supply an amplifier with twice the power rating of the loudspeaker, and that the peak voltage of the amplifier is 3 dB higher than that, because amplifiers are rated with sine waves. Hence, the peak pressure should be 6 dB higher than the maximum continuous SPL. Keep in mind that maximum continuous SPL is a survival rating, not a useability rating. Of course what would be more useful is "maximum useable SPL", but that would be signal dependent and would have to be subjectively determined. So we're stuck with a calculated value that serves only as a point of comparison: "This one's red line is 2 dB higher than this one's red line." "[/I] Since that time, Meyers Sound introduced [I]M[/I]-[I]Noise[/I], a signal that promotes standardized measurement of a loudspeaker system's maximum linear output. Unfortunately, until all manufacturers start using the same test procedures, you have to either compare products yourself, or rely on the opinions of those who have used the products you are considering that have made comparisons between them. And there are still some difficulties with M-Noise, Ivan Beaver of DSL (another company that also happens to make some of the best speaker systems possible..) outlines them in posts # 6 &10: [URL unfurl="true"]https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,176681.msg1631996.html#msg1631996[/URL] Cheers, Art [/QUOTE]
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Feedback on sctive 18" sub + 3-way top combos. RCF v QSC v JBL v EV v Yamaha
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