How do you guys negotiate raindates when assembling festival quotes and contracts? Non-refundable deposit? Half day rate as a retainer? Just eat it and not bill for holding a day?
Festival contracts and rain dates
- Thread starter Graham Tobias
- Start date
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Re: Festival contracts and rain dates
Graham,
This item has always been in my (Welter Systems and Southern Thunder Sound) contracts:
"CANCELLATIONS:If the event is canceled for any reason within 24 hours of the “load in” designated above, and prior to the departure of WS personnel or equipment to the site, Purchaser shall pay WS one-half (1/2) of the agreed upon price set forth herein. If the event is canceled for any reason after WS personnel or equipment departure, Purchaser shall pay WS the full contract price."
If a promoter wanted to book (hold) a second show day from the start of negotiations, I would charge the same for it as any other two day event, since the system and personnel can't be booked on another event that day.
That said, in four decades of outdoor shows, with the major percentage in Minnesota where the chance of rain seemed to be around 50%, they all have been booked as "rain or shine". If a promoter was concerned about rain, they purchased rain insurance, knowing that it would be cheaper than trying to retain artists, venue, production, and staff for a second date.
Art
Graham,
This item has always been in my (Welter Systems and Southern Thunder Sound) contracts:
"CANCELLATIONS:If the event is canceled for any reason within 24 hours of the “load in” designated above, and prior to the departure of WS personnel or equipment to the site, Purchaser shall pay WS one-half (1/2) of the agreed upon price set forth herein. If the event is canceled for any reason after WS personnel or equipment departure, Purchaser shall pay WS the full contract price."
If a promoter wanted to book (hold) a second show day from the start of negotiations, I would charge the same for it as any other two day event, since the system and personnel can't be booked on another event that day.
That said, in four decades of outdoor shows, with the major percentage in Minnesota where the chance of rain seemed to be around 50%, they all have been booked as "rain or shine". If a promoter was concerned about rain, they purchased rain insurance, knowing that it would be cheaper than trying to retain artists, venue, production, and staff for a second date.
Art
Re: Festival contracts and rain dates
Thanks! Yeah, I think booking a full second day is definitely the ideal option, but I'm finding promoters are really struggling to afford it. I'll have to look into rain insurance, that sounds like a good option to recommend them
Thanks! Yeah, I think booking a full second day is definitely the ideal option, but I'm finding promoters are really struggling to afford it. I'll have to look into rain insurance, that sounds like a good option to recommend them
Re: Festival contracts and rain dates
Since your promoters already want something for nothing, they probably won't be interested in the expense of rain insurance ;^).
I have worked shows where the 1/10th inch of rain required to collect the insurance never was reached, yet the light mist and overcast sky insured the prospective audience never left home. Outdoor shows are a crap shoot, smart promoters usually do multiple day events to hedge their bets.
Since your promoters already want something for nothing, they probably won't be interested in the expense of rain insurance ;^).
I have worked shows where the 1/10th inch of rain required to collect the insurance never was reached, yet the light mist and overcast sky insured the prospective audience never left home. Outdoor shows are a crap shoot, smart promoters usually do multiple day events to hedge their bets.
Re: Festival contracts and rain dates
Yeah, it's been an interesting experience breaking into the small/mid-sized weekend festival market. The pricing is so much more difficult than smaller or larger jobs. The most frustrating and constant problem are non-pros undercutting my bids. "My business partner's cousin said he can do the whole weekend for $500" kind of crap. I know that once they work with me and see the difference in quality of a real company, they'll understand why my prices are different. I just hope these gigs turn into annual events so I don't have to spend so much time negotiating.
Yeah, it's been an interesting experience breaking into the small/mid-sized weekend festival market. The pricing is so much more difficult than smaller or larger jobs. The most frustrating and constant problem are non-pros undercutting my bids. "My business partner's cousin said he can do the whole weekend for $500" kind of crap. I know that once they work with me and see the difference in quality of a real company, they'll understand why my prices are different. I just hope these gigs turn into annual events so I don't have to spend so much time negotiating.
Re: Festival contracts and rain dates
Unfortunately, the promoters and people attending small/mid-sized festivals seldom care much about sound quality. The local bar here puts on a few outdoor festivals a year, they used to hire my "real company", now they just use an opening band that has two different pairs of JBL 15/HF horn cabinets and some ancient "subs" that seem good at producing 65 to 80 Hz. The sound ranges from mediocre to plain bad, but attendance seems about the same (always weather dependent), so they have made a cost-effective decision.
Worked at the bar's outdoor facility late last summer for an outside promoter, got many compliments on the sound quality, but the bar still continues to use the opening band system for their festivals. Although I built a smaller system to "compete" for smaller festivals, it just makes no sense to bring it out in the dirt to compete with "My business partner's cousin said he can do the whole weekend for $500".
Unfortunately, the promoters and people attending small/mid-sized festivals seldom care much about sound quality. The local bar here puts on a few outdoor festivals a year, they used to hire my "real company", now they just use an opening band that has two different pairs of JBL 15/HF horn cabinets and some ancient "subs" that seem good at producing 65 to 80 Hz. The sound ranges from mediocre to plain bad, but attendance seems about the same (always weather dependent), so they have made a cost-effective decision.
Worked at the bar's outdoor facility late last summer for an outside promoter, got many compliments on the sound quality, but the bar still continues to use the opening band system for their festivals. Although I built a smaller system to "compete" for smaller festivals, it just makes no sense to bring it out in the dirt to compete with "My business partner's cousin said he can do the whole weekend for $500".