Front fills

J

Jeff Hague

Freshman
Jan 12, 2011
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Mechanicsville, Virginia, United States
www.richmondproaudio.com
So, this is new to me. Ive run systems with front fills but Ive never had to set one up so I have questions...
I have a show this Saturday - outdoor art and wine fest with a large expected crowd of 3K to 4K but probably only a couple hundred in front of the stage at any one time. There is an awful lot of other stuff going on at this gig...
After talking with the folks about providing sound and getting the basic details they started asking me about staging - they havent really done this before. I told them if they could afford it go with a 24 by 20 but if it was too dear, 20 by 16 would be OK. So they went ahead and rented a 32 by 24 with 8 by 8 wings, a full shell and a 12 by 12 covered mix... Probably spending twice on the stage than they are on sound - go figure...
So anyway, my little pair of SR4732-X over SR4719-X will handle a crowd that size just fine but it will look mighty small on that stage. Im bringing an extra pair of each so it will at least look good.
Then, I got to thinking about coverage and fired up G.P.A. (very cool!) and got to looking at it and it seems that my 90 degree horns are going to leave quite a gap right in front of the stage since they will be 32 feet apart. Time for front fills?
I think Ive always seen folks use 2 or more front fills but always in mono, even if the rig itself is stereo. Is there any reason not to use just a single front fill with a 90 degree horn dead center of the stage? G.P.A. indicates that it will work nicely that way.
Im thinking Id drive it fromn the mono out of my GL so it follows my faders. Does that seem reasonable?
Thanks!
 
Re: Front fills

Any particular speaker you were thinking of for the front fill? I think that you could use one, but you'd have to run it a lot harder and won't get as even of coverage. I've never had a problem running two just next to the main stacks. High passing and running of an aux is ideal.
 
Re: Front fills

If you can put a single box in the middle and not have "aesthetics" issues or artistic conflicts (you move the fill when the step dancers perform?) you'll probably do fine. Your fill only needs to cover an area about 40' deep before the crowd is in the main coverage. At the SPL you're likely to be running, I wouldn't worry too much about long term power as Mr. Etheredge does, but his method allows for better sight lines and less on stage cabling.

If you're doing a single box down front, a mono mix will work well. If you don't have EQ to high-pass the send, consider not assigning the bass or kick drum to mono. If you adopt a deployment like Etheredge does, I'd treat them as part of each sides main array.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
 
Re: Front fills

Im thinking something small and simple for the fill - maybe a JBL PRX615M or even a 612M and I can fit either of those in without sight line issues. It wont be a big crowd and I dont expect it will need to be that loud. My experience with front fills is that they generally only need to cover a small area - maybe 10 "rows" of folks deep or less and the rest are in range of the mains.
Ill have a channel of a DRPA available for it too so I can high pass and eq as needed.
It seems like running off an aux would give more control but would also mean having to think about it more - even a post fade aux wouldnt respond to the group faders which is why Im thinking the mono send might be better (no, I dont have VCAs or DCAs available...). I am pretty sure thats what I am used to anyway the few times Ive run a system with front fills but I could be wrong...
Thanks!
 
Re: Front fills

Ten rows.. about 40'. ;)

If this is typical 'wine-fest' entertainment, I think you can put your 612 in the middle, high pass around 100-140 hz and feed it pretty much a full mono mix. Delay the downstage-most part of the system back to the upstage-most part; i.e. if your PA on sticks is 4' upstage of the front fill, delay the FF accordingly, vice-versa if the PA is downstage of the fills.

Have fun, let us know how it all works out.

Tim Mc
 
Re: Front fills

If you have monitors onstage, placing the center fill in the center is no more obtrusive than the wedges. I typically use K10's set down on the side opposite of the monitor angle. If there are seats for the crowd in front and the mains are 40 feet apart and well above the height of the seats (like in my school auditorium) I would typically use 3 fills.

Given the wider pattern of the K10's I think this actually works better than using them on each side pointing in. Placing them in front also provides coverage for the people who are in front of the L/R stack but under the height of the horns.

I usually run my own rig in dual mono. Since I am using a 4x8 dsp with powered speakers, I have always had the processing power for running the extra channel. For combo speak/music events I have pushed the high pass up even a little higher than Tim's suggestion. I usually end up about 140 for music and as high as 200 hz for speech.
 
Re: Front fills

Tim McCulloch said:
Ten rows.. about 40'. ;)
Click to expand...

Ten rows is about 10' deep in my world. :)

I always throw out at least a pair of front fills. The extra firepower is always nice, and when EQ'd and delayed with the mains, you get a nice, even coverage everywhere. I normally high pass my front fills around 250hz. Just because you are out of the mains horn path, doesn't mean no sound is making it to the middle. You'll still have plenty of low mid down front, and the FF's job is to cut through that and give you some vocal intelligibility down front.



Evan
 
Re: Front fills

Evan Kirkendall said:
Ten rows is about 10' deep in my world. :)

I always throw out at least a pair of front fills. The extra firepower is always nice, and when EQ'd and delayed with the mains, you get a nice, even coverage everywhere. I normally high pass my front fills around 250hz. Just because you are out of the mains horn path, doesn't mean no sound is making it to the middle. You'll still have plenty of low mid down front, and the FF's job is to cut through that and give you some vocal intelligibility down front.

Evan
Click to expand...

At a wine-fest... there is less standing in front of the stage particularly later in the day.. ;)

Tim Mc
 
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