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The Basement
Gaddafi Found!
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<blockquote data-quote="John Roberts" data-source="post: 34742" data-attributes="member: 126"><p>Re: Gaddafi Found!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Giving you that observation, does that suggest to anyone that freedom and personal choice are not worth pursuing? </p><p></p><p>India (on a different continent) is the most populous democracy in the world and they routinely suffer terrorist attacks from internal and external enemies. I wouldn't say they are blase about it nor do they find it acceptable, but nobody would consider giving up their freedoms for a little more security. </p><p></p><p>The Kurdish/Turk tension is clearly a classic case of western map lines being used to define nations, ignoring cultural roots that run deeper. I just mentioned as a data point about the uneven progress in Iraq getting their early act in order. </p><p></p><p>My optimism extends to feeling that democracy is worth pursuing, I am not so naive to think it will just happen. The natural order in a power vacuum is for the next alpha dog to just take control, and if that alpha is another mad dog, we get another one of them. </p><p></p><p>Simply holding elections after 40 years of totalitarian rule will not magically stand up an effective government, while many dictators pretend to have elections so people could remember what they look like. </p><p></p><p>People have stopped watching Egypt after the images were no longer worthy of our too short attention span, but now is the interesting part where the Brotherhood is building and consolidating political power. There will be some interesting elections in that region in the next several months and while I can't feel great about possible outcomes, I feel better that they are at least voting on their own futures. </p><p></p><p>Looking back at our own history, it took us years to get our act together in the early days, but we didn't have bad actors in our midst, while I guess this is subjective and biased by my world view of who are the good guys, and what is best for them. </p><p></p><p>JR</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="John Roberts, post: 34742, member: 126"] Re: Gaddafi Found! Giving you that observation, does that suggest to anyone that freedom and personal choice are not worth pursuing? India (on a different continent) is the most populous democracy in the world and they routinely suffer terrorist attacks from internal and external enemies. I wouldn't say they are blase about it nor do they find it acceptable, but nobody would consider giving up their freedoms for a little more security. The Kurdish/Turk tension is clearly a classic case of western map lines being used to define nations, ignoring cultural roots that run deeper. I just mentioned as a data point about the uneven progress in Iraq getting their early act in order. My optimism extends to feeling that democracy is worth pursuing, I am not so naive to think it will just happen. The natural order in a power vacuum is for the next alpha dog to just take control, and if that alpha is another mad dog, we get another one of them. Simply holding elections after 40 years of totalitarian rule will not magically stand up an effective government, while many dictators pretend to have elections so people could remember what they look like. People have stopped watching Egypt after the images were no longer worthy of our too short attention span, but now is the interesting part where the Brotherhood is building and consolidating political power. There will be some interesting elections in that region in the next several months and while I can't feel great about possible outcomes, I feel better that they are at least voting on their own futures. Looking back at our own history, it took us years to get our act together in the early days, but we didn't have bad actors in our midst, while I guess this is subjective and biased by my world view of who are the good guys, and what is best for them. JR [/QUOTE]
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