Gain Compensation on Yamaha "AG->DG Link"

Andrew Broughton

Andrew Broughton

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Feb 2, 2011
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Anyone understand what the AG->DG Link setting is for on the CL/QL?

You can change the channel gain control to digital gain in the user setup, so it's not for that. If you enable it both the analog gain and digital gain move together, and I can't understand why you would want that.

Page 4 of the version 2.0 supplemental manual:

Input channels
Added gain function
If GC (Gain Compensation) is enabled, you can link the digital gain to the analog gain operation.
While you are controlling the analog gain, the Gain Compensation function enables you to modify the
level on your own console without affecting the level of other consoles.
■ Linking the gains
1. Press the GAIN knob in the GAIN/PATCH field in the OVERVIEW screen (or
SELECTED CHANNEL VIEW screen).
2. Press the 1ch tab or 8ch tab in the GAIN/PATCH popup window.
3. Press the AG➞DG LINK button to turn the link on.
Using the AG→DG ALL ON button and AG→DG ALL OFF button enables you to turn the link
between the analog and digital gain for all input channels simultaneously.
Click to expand...

Also, it seems like once you turn on GC, and start using your gain control as digital gain, you won't see a change on the input channel meters which makes them pretty pointless. Is there no way to set the channel meters to be pre-eq/processing but post-digital gain?
 
Re: Gain Compensation on Yamaha "AG->DG Link"

Andrew Broughton said:
Anyone understand what the AG->DG Link setting is for on the CL/QL?

You can change the channel gain control to digital gain in the user setup, so it's not for that. If you enable it both the analog gain and digital gain move together, and I can't understand why you would want that.
Click to expand...

I think when you do that you see both gains move, but only the digital gain is active. In the block diagram there is a meter that is post digital gain, but pre HP. I don't know where you select that as the meter though.

Mac
 
Re: Gain Compensation on Yamaha "AG->DG Link"

When AG->DG is on, adjusting the Analog Gain on your console will also adjust the Digital Gain on your console. 1 for 1... This is for people who like to hear a change in level while GC is on. The level on the network will remain the same for everyone else.

Touching on the ST/Mono meters on the right hand side of the screen will open the meter page. You can change your meter point to post-digital gain there.

Also, when using Gain Compensation, you should change the bit depth of the network from 24-bit to 32-bit on the Dante Setup page. This will give you a larger dynamic range on the Dante Network for any signals that are compensated down and increase the range of the GC circuit from +/-16dB to +/-24dB.


Leland
 
Re: Gain Compensation on Yamaha "AG->DG Link"

mackerr said:
I think when you do that you see both gains move, but only the digital gain is active.
Click to expand...
Thank you but, well, that makes no sense. I'll have to do some research to see what this is all about.

In the block diagram there is a meter that is post digital gain, but pre HP. I don't know where you select that as the meter though.
Click to expand...
I saw that, but it's not an option that's selectable AFAIK.

Leland Green said:
When AG->DG is on, adjusting the Analog Gain on your console will also adjust the Digital Gain on your console. 1 for 1... This is for people who like to hear a change in level while GC is on. The level on the network will remain the same for everyone else.
Click to expand...
I don't understand. Are you saying this is the same as the user preference setting I spoke of? If so, it doesn't make any sense. Why should it show the analog gain raising when it's not.

Touching on the ST/Mono meters on the right hand side of the screen will open the meter page. You can change your meter point to post-digital gain there.
Click to expand...
For the meters on the channels? They can be set to post-digital-gain but pre everything else?

Also, when using Gain Compensation, you should change the bit depth of the network from 24-bit to 32-bit on the Dante Setup page. This will give you a larger dynamic range on the Dante Network for any signals that are compensated down and increase the range of the GC circuit from +/-16dB to +/-24dB.
Click to expand...
Where did you read this? From what I saw, the DG goes from -96db to +24db no matter what the bit depth.
 
Re: Gain Compensation on Yamaha "AG->DG Link"

The Gain Compensation is for when you have multiple consoles sharing the same Head Amp units (i.e. Rio 3224). You would assign one console as the "Master" and it would control the Analog Gain (i.e. the FoH Console), and every other console on the network would mix with their Digital Gain. this way if the FoH guy needed more or less gain on a channel, everyone else's console would change digitally so that your gain is not affected.
 
Re: Gain Compensation on Yamaha "AG->DG Link"

Douglas Plander said:
The Gain Compensation is for when you have multiple consoles sharing the same Head Amp units (i.e. Rio 3224). You would assign one console as the "Master" and it would control the Analog Gain (i.e. the FoH Console), and every other console on the network would mix with their Digital Gain. this way if the FoH guy needed more or less gain on a channel, everyone else's console would change digitally so that your gain is not affected.
Click to expand...

Not on the Yamaha CL/QL/Rio system. There is no master, all consoles (up to four) are simply assigned unique numbers and all have equal control over the head amps.
 
Gain Compensation on Yamaha "AG->DG Link"

Thanks everyone, I'm good on how Yamaha GC works generally, I'm just curious about the specific points I raised.

The additional info you mentioned will be helpful for those not familiar with Yamaha GC though, so thank you.


Sent from my iPhone
 
Last edited:
Re: Gain Compensation on Yamaha "AG->DG Link"

Andrew Broughton said:
Right. As I said, the gain knob function can be changed in user preferences.
Click to expand...

Right, in which case the gain encoder will affect digital gain instead of the head amp gain. That's different from this new feature which, as part of gain compensation, adjusts the analog gain but doesn't cause a complementary change in the digital gain for that specific console.
 
Re: Gain Compensation on Yamaha "AG->DG Link"

Leland Green said:
When AG->DG is on, adjusting the Analog Gain on your console will also adjust the Digital Gain on your console. 1 for 1... This is for people who like to hear a change in level while GC is on. The level on the network will remain the same for everyone else.
Click to expand...

Andrew Broughton said:
Scott, if you understand what exactly enabling the DG->AG function does, could you explain it in more detail? I still don't understand.
Click to expand...

I'd have to set up a system to be certain, but Leland's explanation (and Leland *is* a Yamaha employee) looks like the right one.

Normally when you have gain compensation turned on the analog gain control changes the head amp gain, but also an inverse change to the digital gain so that the level stays the same. In that setup when you fool around with the analog gain you're just going to hear more or less background noise or clipping as you go to extremes.

With the AG DG link you, on your own console, will hear the head amp level changes as actual changes in signal level. Turn up, and it'll get louder.
 
Re: Gain Compensation on Yamaha "AG->DG Link"

Scott Helmke said:
I'd have to set up a system to be certain, but Leland's explanation (and Leland *is* a Yamaha employee) looks like the right one.
Click to expand...
Then I'll have to verify his statement about the bitdepth changing the DG range. I'm pretty sure my CL was on 24bit, and I still had a range of -96 to +24.

Normally when you have gain compensation turned on the analog gain control changes the head amp gain, but also an inverse change to the digital gain so that the level stays the same. In that setup when you fool around with the analog gain you're just going to hear more or less background noise or clipping as you go to extremes.
Click to expand...
That's the way I understand it to work and what I've experienced when using it.

With the AG DG link you, on your own console, will hear the head amp level changes as actual changes in signal level. Turn up, and it'll get louder.
Click to expand...
Ok, I think a lightbulb just went on. It's different than changing the function of the gain knob because it actually does change the analog gain at the same time as the digital gain. Duh. Sorry for being so stupid!
 
Re: Gain Compensation on Yamaha "AG->DG Link"

Andrew Broughton said:
For this functionality to catch on, they definitely need to add a 4th meter point option for the input channels: "post-digital-gain-but-pre-everything-else". I don't want Pre-Fader as it would post-dynamics.
Click to expand...

In the CL Editor you can select one of five pickoff points for input meters, pre GC, pre DG, post DG, pre fader, or post on.

Mac
 
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