Gig booked and then they said they no.

J

Jimmy Hardin

Junior
Jan 29, 2013
314
0
16
Hi guys , Got a question.


About a month or so ago, I asked our local arena for some work, and they gave me some dates and i asked them if they were confirmed for sure gonna use me for them. I am using their Equipment all i have to do is show up and run it , Simple easy job. I love working with them, but Today i found out that they are not gonna use me for one of the shows. and that particular show is this weekend. Now , I don't have a problem with them canceling me doing it , It's their show, What i have a problem with is that i could have had a date come in that i could actually make better money at , and I booked that day for this arena show. I didnt have one but could have. What do any of you guys do to resolve a problem like this. I don't really have any ideas on what to do in the future about it. There was no contracts or nothing like that it was just verable agreement. Any suggestions?
 
Re: Gig booked and then they said they no.

To quote an 80's musician, "It don't mean nothin' 'till you sign it on the dotted line."

I regularly work in the photography field, and we don't consider ourselves booked until we're paid I'm full. Some folks want to hold back cash, and I let them know that they're not booked at that point.

Sorry it's not pro audio related, but I believe I'm seeing similar issues between the industries.
 
Re: Gig booked and then they said they no.

At a recording studio I worked at, we required deposits to hold studio time on the schedule. If the client cancelled with sufficient notice (10 business days, IIRC) the deposit was 100% refunded. As the date got closer the refund got smaller, but I recall a 25% refund with 48 hours notice. In the rate sheet it said "no excuse needed, it is not necessary for your grandmother to die again."

But my reply is about your relationship with the arena, not so much about the money.

Here's the deal - you are probably an employee of the arena, not an independent contractor. They tell you when to work, when not to work, they provide the equipment (tools, in employment-speak), and they supervise your work. Unless you're routinely offering such services (operating client-provided "tools") to other arenas, you're probably not an independent contractor.

I have some other thoughts. PM me if you're interested.
 
Re: Gig booked and then they said they no.

Tim McCulloch said:
At a recording studio I worked at, we required deposits to hold studio time on the schedule. If the client cancelled with sufficient notice (10 business days, IIRC) the deposit was 100% refunded. As the date got closer the refund got smaller, but I recall a 25% refund with 48 hours notice. In the rate sheet it said "no excuse needed, it is not necessary for your grandmother to die again."

But my reply is about your relationship with the arena, not so much about the money.

Here's the deal - you are probably an employee of the arena, not an independent contractor. They tell you when to work, when not to work, they provide the equipment (tools, in employment-speak), and they supervise your work. Unless you're routinely offering such services (operating client-provided "tools") to other arenas, you're probably not an independent contractor.

I have some other thoughts. PM me if you're interested.
Click to expand...


Well, What i do is this , When they have a event that is using THEIR gear I get a hourly rate. but when they have events that need more gear then they tell the people putting on the event about mine and then i get in contact with the people that is putting on the event and work from there on a fixed rate. I am not on staff there at all.
 
Re: Gig booked and then they said they no.

Mitch Miller said:
To quote an 80's musician, "It don't mean nothin' 'till you sign it on the dotted line."

I regularly work in the photography field, and we don't consider ourselves booked until we're paid I'm full. Some folks want to hold back cash, and I let them know that they're not booked at that point.

Sorry it's not pro audio related, but I believe I'm seeing similar issues between the industries.
Click to expand...

The way i do mine is , I go and talk to them about a date for a event that they might have coming up and they will tell me yeah we can use you , and then i ask them if they want to book it and they say yeah or no and then i consider it booked and i hold that day for them only. but the problem i am having is that when this arena person that is over it books me then they will wait or "forget" that they booked me and then the week of the event then they tell me that i am not working the event. so now I couldn't book anything if it came in on that same day or nothing.
 
Re: Gig booked and then they said they no.

Jimmy Hardin said:
Well, What i do is this , When they have a event that is using THEIR gear I get a hourly rate. but when they have events that need more gear then they tell the people putting on the event about mine and then i get in contact with the people that is putting on the event and work from there on a fixed rate. I am not on staff there at all.
Click to expand...

Jimmy, you totally missed my point. Unless their client hires you and you bring in a system of your own, from a LEGAL standpoint you're an employee whether you think so or not. That legal status means you probably can't get deposits or charge them for not working you.
 
Re: Gig booked and then they said they no.

Jimmy Hardin said:
The way i do mine is , I go and talk to them about a date for a event that they might have coming up and they will tell me yeah we can use you , and then i ask them if they want to book it and they say yeah or no and then i consider it booked and i hold that day for them only. but the problem i am having is that when this arena person that is over it books me then they will wait or "forget" that they booked me and then the week of the event then they tell me that i am not working the event. so now I couldn't book anything if it came in on that same day or nothing.
Click to expand...

The system you have works fine.
I'd suggest you modify your agreement with the person who books you. Agree that if another client is interested in booking you on a date you're already committed to the arena, you'll contact the arena and they'll provide a guarantee to pay you in full regardless of whether they cancel your services.
it seems very unfortunate that the person who booked you would 'forget' they did that... There are tools available to prevent that from happening. I hope it doesn't happen often.
 
Re: Gig booked and then they said they no.

a large Event venues like this will be hard to battle for a "guaranteed pay" (unless you're salary) when you are paid Hourly. There could be many reasons why they slashed the call: entertainment is bringing their own labor... production details were cut short/smaller than originally planned... Union was able to fill the call...


But sometimes, I do enjoy getting the cancelation calls...
Use the day off to do:
1) take the Signification Other out on a date
2) catch-up on wash
3) be a handyman around the house or car
4) relax and have a drink
 
Re: Gig booked and then they said they no.

Mike McDonald said:
The system you have works fine.
I'd suggest you modify your agreement with the person who books you. Agree that if another client is interested in booking you on a date you're already committed to the arena, you'll contact the arena and they'll provide a guarantee to pay you in full regardless of whether they cancel your services.
it seems very unfortunate that the person who booked you would 'forget' they did that... There are tools available to prevent that from happening. I hope it doesn't happen often.
Click to expand...

When i ask for the dates i tell them if they Hear any changes at all in my department to call me ASAP. Cause i never know from one day to the next what event is gonna want that certain date. I always do a first come first serve type of business.
 
Re: Gig booked and then they said they no.

Matt Vivlamore said:
a large Event venues like this will be hard to battle for a "guaranteed pay" (unless you're salary) when you are paid Hourly. There could be many reasons why they slashed the call: entertainment is bringing their own labor... production details were cut short/smaller than originally planned... Union was able to fill the call...


But sometimes, I do enjoy getting the cancelation calls...
Use the day off to do:
1) take the Signification Other out on a date
2) catch-up on wash
3) be a handyman around the house or car
4) relax and have a drink
Click to expand...

Honestly i believe that that is what happened , They brought their own guys. But here is the thing about all of it , They had this certain event like this before , just different guys . The guys at the other event literally blew the whole sound system by trying to get the arena's P.A. above monster truck motors. and then they started hiring me to come in and do the event. Now this person that was hired over the arena after all that happened has the mentality of , just set it up and let them run it , they are professional they will know how to run it.
 
Re: Gig booked and then they said they no.

Matt Vivlamore said:
a large Event venues like this will be hard to battle for a "guaranteed pay" (unless you're salary) when you are paid Hourly. There could be many reasons why they slashed the call: entertainment is bringing their own labor... production details were cut short/smaller than originally planned... Union was able to fill the call...


But sometimes, I do enjoy getting the cancelation calls...
Use the day off to do:
1) take the Signification Other out on a date
2) catch-up on wash
3) be a handyman around the house or car
4) relax and have a drink
Click to expand...


This may sound strange to ya'll because you all have probably done The sound thing for many years , but when i am not doing sound somewhere it drives me nuts if its more than a week without some where to work at. I really love what i am doing. I can't stay still for very long. lol
 
Re: Gig booked and then they said they no.

Gene Hardage said:
All the old blues guys demanded full pay before playing - in cash.

I wouldn't sweat that one if they intend to keep using you often. Try to get them to communicate more about their schedule.
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Yeah, i agree. They will keep using me, that's not really a issue, I talked to them today and it sounded like a misunderstanding between the arena and the promoters of the event. They appologized for the mix up. I was just glad that i didnt turn down a different gig that came in on that same date. lol that would have been bad. lol
 
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