Got Bass?

I

Isaak Cooke

Freshman
Jan 31, 2013
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Well, first, since I'm new here, let me introduce myself. I am a junior in high school, and I work in the auditorium at my school with a GL4800-48 sound board and a high-tech system of wireless and wired microphones. In other words, I'm a sound technician's intern and work plays. I also do little side music things. I have come here based on these "qualifications," as you could say, with lack of knowledge in a certain subject regarding bass. You see, I also work part-time at a roller skating arena and the owner is really into his $100,000 sound system. In fact, he tried explaining it to me, and I've been curious ever since.

The boss told me that his amplifiers (I have no clue what amp he has) take frequencies of their input below a certain level (I believe frequencies just below the upper threshold of the bass spectrum) and add to the input frequencies a lower octave of bass. I've heard it referred to as adding sub bass, but I'm not entirely sure what it is, or if these classifications were correct.

Anywho, I'm curious as to what it is, and if possible, how to set something similar up to it via my computer. And from what I've figured out, it's all on the spot stuff. The DJ will talk and if his voice goes down low enough, the servo-driven subwoofers will sound their incredibly low added-octave pitch. Sooooo, yeah, just what is it?!?! And how do I get my computer to maybe do the same thing with music output? I kinda like the effect.

Thanks, guys~

Yours truly, Isaak
 
Re: Got Bass?

Josh Millward said:
dbx has long been making subharmonic synthesizers...
120A | dbx Professional Audio

They are pretty cool. I had one for a while. They can do some interesting stuff... I think they are fun to play with.

Peavey also makes the Kosmos, which does something similar:
Peavey :: Kosmos® V2
Click to expand...

Warning: in the wrong hands and/or on the wrong system, these device can be fatal to low frequency drivers ;)
 
Re: Got Bass?

Isaak, here's another cool version:

http://www.waves.com/Content.aspx?id=172

Some of these work on your perception of bass content, without actually increasing LF content in the signal. You believe there's more bass, but you're not working the PA any harder... just like MP3s can make you believe a low bitrate track sounds full bitrate.

Others are basically just "octavers", which take whatever content there is at, say, 60Hz and recreate it an octave lower - at 30Hz. If the PA wasn't going to do that LF stuff in the first place this won't make it, but it will significantly add to what the PA has to try and keep up with and possibly make it explode.
 
Re: Got Bass?

Josh Millward said:
dbx has long been making subharmonic synthesizers...
120A | dbx Professional Audio

They are pretty cool. I had one for a while. They can do some interesting stuff... I think they are fun to play with.
Click to expand...

did a symphony date with Bobby McFerrin about a million years ago and he brought his own DBX 120 with him. it was pretty fun to play with, especially for a master of the voice like McFerrin....
 
Re: Got Bass?

Im a fan of the older Peavey Kosmos (blue one) for certain applications. I havent used the newer ones. For one band I Used it on an Aux as an effect on certain instruments. Id like to grab another one soon actually now that Im thinking about it.
 
Re: Got Bass?

Isaak Cooke said:
Well, first, since I'm new here, let me introduce myself. I am a junior in high school, and I work in the auditorium at my school with a GL4800-48 sound board and a high-tech system of wireless and wired microphones. In other words, I'm a sound technician's intern and work plays. I also do little side music things. I have come here based on these "qualifications," as you could say, with lack of knowledge in a certain subject regarding bass. You see, I also work part-time at a roller skating arena and the owner is really into his $100,000 sound system. In fact, he tried explaining it to me, and I've been curious ever since.

The boss told me that his amplifiers (I have no clue what amp he has) take frequencies of their input below a certain level (I believe frequencies just below the upper threshold of the bass spectrum) and add to the input frequencies a lower octave of bass. I've heard it referred to as adding sub bass, but I'm not entirely sure what it is, or if these classifications were correct.

Anywho, I'm curious as to what it is, and if possible, how to set something similar up to it via my computer. And from what I've figured out, it's all on the spot stuff. The DJ will talk and if his voice goes down low enough, the servo-driven subwoofers will sound their incredibly low added-octave pitch. Sooooo, yeah, just what is it?!?! And how do I get my computer to maybe do the same thing with music output? I kinda like the effect.

Thanks, guys~

Yours truly, Isaak
Click to expand...


Isaak,

I want to be the first to congratulate you on a well-written, thoughtful, and clear first question on the boards. You Sir are in rarefied air indeed! There are few that come here looking for advice that can compose such a succinct, yet thorough and well-spelled entry!

Where do you attend school? I'm curious to know if I should move my kids there!
 
Re: Got Bass?

Just to reinfore Mac's explanation, many of the subharmonic synthesizes take a signal and based on that signal create additional lower frequency content that was not in the original signal. Whether that is a benefit or not can be a function of how well the reproduction system can handle the resulting additional lower frequency content.

Waves MaxxBass instead creates addditional higher frequency content that uses psychoacoustics to create the perception of additional low frequency content. It can actually reduce the low frequency content of the signal and thus is a good option for systems that may need more apparent bass without actually having to provide greater bass output.
 
Re: Got Bass?

A roller rink with a $100,000 sound system sounds like great fun!
It is my understanding that all these "bass expanders" are adding distortion to the original signal and will eventually become annoying. Not something I would be looking for in a system designed to accurately reproduce music.
 
Re: Got Bass?

jonthomas said:
A roller rink with a $100,000 sound system sounds like great fun!
It is my understanding that all these "bass expanders" are adding distortion to the original signal and will eventually become annoying. Not something I would be looking for in a system designed to accurately reproduce music.
Click to expand...

I am not sure a roller rink (or most systems setup/tuned for most forms of music (live or not live)) is interested in "accurately" reproducing music. :D~:-D~:grin:

As an aside, the DBX 120A (or if mixing ITB something similar to Waves LoAir) is also used a ton in rerecording engineer's LFE signal chains for movie mixes.

Bass expanders do not add massive THD to a signal per se...... remember that because of the way our ears work we need much more amplitude at low frequencies to perceive them to be the same apparent volume as mid/high frequencies.

The frequencies subharmonic synthesizers are generating are often very low (e.g. 22hz) and the amplitude needed for a playback system to make those signals audible can very quickly eat up all your headroom before you even start to hear them (if the frequencies are not being filtered out by the speaker). The corresponding clipping from bad gain structure is what will cause audible distortion in the pass band.

A little subharmonic synthesis can go a long way, and you can very easily get yourself in trouble.
 
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Re: Got Bass?

jonthomas said:
A roller rink with a $100,000 sound system sounds like great fun!
It is my understanding that all these "bass expanders" are adding distortion to the original signal and will eventually become annoying. Not something I would be looking for in a system designed to accurately reproduce music.
Click to expand...
ANYTHING that is not part of the original signal is distortion. So yes they add a lot of "distortion". ANY effects processor "distorts" the signal. Not to many singers have a natural reverb coming out of their mouths.

Some "distortions" are preferred to make it "sound better". This is not always a bad thing-as the term "distortion" would imply.

Harmonic distortion is a different animal.
 
Re: Got Bass?

Ivan Beaver said:
ANYTHING that is not part of the original signal is distortion. So yes they add a lot of "distortion". ANY effects processor "distorts" the signal. Not to many singers have a natural reverb coming out of their mouths.

Some "distortions" are preferred to make it "sound better". This is not always a bad thing-as the term "distortion" would imply.

Harmonic distortion is a different animal.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Any unpleasant audible distortion using a subharmonic synth is likely the distortion cause by the extra cone excursion the synth creates. Especially that kind of cool distortion of the VC hitting the backplate at full force when the drivers are pushed hard well below tuning ;)
 
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