Green technology?

Per Søvik

Per Søvik

Graduate Student
Jan 31, 2012
1,881
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Norway
So I had to replace a led bulb today after roughly 2500 hours. This lightbulb replaced a 20W tungsten bulb that would have consumed 50 KWh at a cost of roughly $6. The led bulb cost roughly $20 more than the tungsten bulb, so I'm $14 down.

Now, to pay me wages of $14 net, my employer have to produce nearly 50 kg of aluminium, using 650 KWh and expelling 75KG of CO2 and some minor amounts of HF and FC to do so.

Seems like my "Green" account is firmly in the red before I even think of recycling that led bulb :evil:
 
Re: Green technology?

Scott Helmke said:
Isn't electricity unusually cheap in Norway, though?
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Yes, the electricity is relatively cheap and 99.99% non-polluting, but we still have to follow EU directives on lightbulbs and pay CO2-tax on electricity. The latter is of course the result of the geniuses that came up with the scam in the first place decided that it would be an unfair advantage if already "green" power was exempt from the tax :lol:
 
Re: Green technology?

Not to mention the Tungsten bulb probably had great light. I went all CFL in my apartment last summer for the simple reason that our air conditioner couldn't handle the additional heat load of 400w of lighting in the living room. I like bright, full spectrum light (had been using GE's outstanding Edison and Reveal bulbs) but not as much as I like not sweating. So far all bulbs have survived, which is better than my last experience where I re-bulbed my whole townhouse with CFLs and lost about 20% a year. Those things just cannot handle being in recessed ceiling fixtures.

Now that CREE has come out with a lightbulb looking LED bulb I purchased one of those to install in a small table lamp by my reading chair. Seems to be pretty good, although only 60w equivalent. I'd like to see about 2000 lumens, but it looks like it will still be some time before those become affordable. The CREE bulb was $10 on sale, can't complain about that.

Cree Lighting: 13.5W (60W) TW Series Soft White LED Bulb
 
Re: Green technology?

I, too, have had mixed to poor experience with CFLs. Ones from Philips seem to work well, and I have 8 of them on the exterior lights of my house that are on a timer and run 2 - 6 hours a night, depending on season, and I'm still on the same set of bulbs from 7 years ago. Cheap ones from HD seem to die faster than a conventional tungsten bulb.

I have had great luck with LEDs - both at home and at my office. We put in 800 Philips EnduraLED Par 38 and MR16 bulbs 12-18 months ago, and 100% of them are still working, and these are on 50 hrs/week. I work in a downtown office tower where electricity costs $.40/kw when you factor in cooling costs, so they've already paid for themselves - not to mention saving the labor of constant bulb changes. I've been happy with CRI as well. I do think brand matters - the cheap stuff is not as good - go figure, I guess.
 
Re: Green technology?

Bennett Prescott said:
Not to mention the Tungsten bulb probably had great light. I went all CFL in my apartment last summer for the simple reason that our air conditioner couldn't handle the additional heat load of 400w of lighting in the living room.
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Yes, the reduced heat is of course a big factor when you are not only paying for the heat, but also paying to get rid of it. Sometimes in office buildings and shopping centers in the summer, the savings of going to led lamps can be quite significant, and the need for getting in extra heat in the winter to compensate for the loss of heat sources is normally of no consequence.
 
Re: Green technology?

Ah the pain of being early adopters.... Some of the early CFL lamps were hand grenades and after the technology stabilized they are still not very heat tolerant. I have had to drop wattage in closed fixtures for the CFL to deliver good life.

LED light (color) is better IMO than CFL, but still a little pricey.

Coincidentally, I made an under desk heater last winter out of a fixture with 3 incandescent lamps and a dimmer for heat control. It had been so long since I had purchased incandescent bulbs I forgot how cheap those are. I don't miss having the incandescent bulbs burn out at inconvenient times.

You ever notice how light bulbs usually burn out at night? (a corollary to always finding stuff in the last place you look.) :-)

JR

PS: Hydropower is 98% of Norway's electricity use so that is a good thing, A lot of Europe is expanding relatively more expensive wind and solar electricity generation, "and" subsidizing electricity prices for local industry to support employment, so consumers pay even more of the burden for being green. I read about a recent example in Ohio (I think) where the state is subsidizing electricity cost for a local aluminum smelter or perhaps steel plant to preserve jobs raising electric bills for all consumers. I am not a fan of government putting their thumb on the scale for the benefit of one industry. Let them move to one of the states with natural gas coming out of their ears. Lower energy costs are good for business and the economy. The US is enjoying record exports of refined gasoline because we are making more and using less. If the Keystone pipeline ever gets finished even more Canadian oil will get refined here leading to even more refined product exports.
 
I have CFLs in most areas that have the lights on a lot and are controlled by ordinary switches. I have found a few good LEDs on sale sometimes and have put those in too. I had CFLs on my staircase originally, but they took too long to get bright enough (I was down the stairs before they got up to reasonable light levels). I replaced them with the $10 LEDs which work a treat.
I have mostly LEDs in my office which reduces the heat in summer but I had to put a 15 watt appliance bulb on the circuit to get the dimmer to work :-)
My outside floods are CFLs. They take a minute to come up to full bright but are only 40-80 watts each.
I am waiting for PAR20 and PAR30L bulbs. I have many 4" & 5" eyeball recessed fixtures on slanted ceilings.

Only the early CFLs have failed and am almost through all of them after 4 years.


Sent from my iPad HD
 
Re: Green technology?

Rob / all,

I'm about 90% done with a complete rebuild of my living room. The outer wall of the 100 year old house leaned in about 4", there was no insulation, poor electrical, etc.. The room was completely gutted, and a valance built around the perimeter that is now used to support all of my wiring for sound, TV and other electronics, and lighting. A major concern was the amount of light, could it be dimmed properly, could it be dimmed enough, did the fixture inject noise into the sound system or cause problems with the flat screen, etc..

I used a total of nine (9) 6" fixtures and two (2) 4" fixtures (over the fireplace), and two (2) additional 6" fixtures in the dining room over the table. The 20" wide valance is 7' above the floor, the ceiling is almost 9' above the floor. Each wall section of valance has it's own dimmer, the fireplace has it's own dimmer, the dining room has it's own dimmer.

The lights are LED, dim perfectly, and the switches all have a separate dimmer control to allow for adjustment of the lowest light level. The cans are air tight. The ceiling has been plastered and all I can say is the results are spectacular. White light at any level, and plenty of it when needed, almost like the sun is shining into the room at night. And my testing paid off. No noise or problems with the electronics. I spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $800 for the lights, cans, and switches, but it was money well spent. Plus, there is a rebate form our electric company that cut the cost of the lights in half, at least at HD (Rob). I used the lights and dimmers at the links below.


Commercial Electric 6 in. Recessed White LED Trim-CER6741WH at The Home Depot

Lutron Skylark Contour 150-Watt Single Pole / 3-Way CFL LED Dimmer - White-CTCL-153PDH-WH at The Home Depot
 
Re: Green technology?

I bought 4 Utilitech LED's from Lowes for $10 each. They give off a nice white light and you can touch the lamp as there is almost no heat.They are not for use in enclosed fixtures. The major portion of my business is electrical and I have installed quite a few Atlas LED dusk to dawn fixtures.Again,very nice white light.An added benefit is LED's don't seem to attract bugs like other types of lighting.I recently installed one on an apartment building.On one end is the LED,on the other end is a mercury vapor fixture.The MV fixture was swarming with bugs,the LED had none.
 
Re: Green technology?

Hello . Just want to add: Norwegians should't pat themselves too hard on the back. At peak winter season we import very "dirty" power to supplement what we produce ourselves. Besides, we sell off gas and oil like the stuff was going out of fashion (it may be, actually). The crap goes into the same atmosphere last time I checked. Besides, we fly almost as much as Americans by now on average. For some reason government have decided that Norwegians who own cars are to blame for global warming, so anything related to driving costs an arm and a leg, so I guess we are a little "greener" in that department. There are in fact a few areas where I'm proud to say that we are amongst the good guys, as a whole, but even with all our hydroelectric power we, unfortunately, are not very green when it comes to power consumption and greenhouse gas emissions :(
 
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