High quality power amps with onboard DSP and load monitoring.

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Helge A. Bentsen

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Jan 19, 2011
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I'm researching power amps for an upcoming project with some specific needs:

- Full onboard DSP
- Load monitoring
- Power output above 2000W/4ohm.
- 2 ohm drive capability
- AES input.
- FIR-filter capability.

So far I've looked at Dynacord PowerH/EV TG-series, Crown I-tech, Powersoft K-series and Labgruppen PLM.
On paper it looks like they are pretty matched feature vise, maybe with an exception for the exellent Lake processing in the PLMs. So once again I find myself back here searching for some real world experience :)

Pros/cons with these amps?
Anything else I should include on my list?
 
Re: High quality power amps with onboard DSP and load monitoring.

The Powersoft stuff is good if you can afford it and don't mind deep racks Dave Gunness uses them for his speakers and can incorporate all his clever processing into them these days, however the Lab amps with the Lake processing are probably closer to the "industry standard" in Europe both in amp type and performance as well as the Lake processing. It would appear that the ITech limiters are the dogs reproductive organs but I've never seen the Crown amps up close so have no real experience to speak of, though there apears to be a LOT of happy users these days, as far as the EV gear I'm sure it'll be fine but if riders are the aim then the Labs and to a lesser extent the Powersoft amps are more common in Europe G
 
Re: High quality power amps with onboard DSP and load monitoring.

I am VERY impressed with the Powersoft, especially the new K3 which is not especially deep and has an exceptional power point. The DSP integration is really great, with load monitoring, real measured power limiting, and every sort of DSP thing you could want. Very easy to use.

I have a K3, 2x K20, and one of their 4 channel amps out for Test Drive right now that I am hoping I can start reporting on next week.
 
Re: High quality power amps with onboard DSP and load monitoring.

I bought the Crown iTech HD for me Vertec's but am now looking seriously at Powersoft for everything else.
 
Re: High quality power amps with onboard DSP and load monitoring.

Bennett Prescott said:
I like the iTech HDs, but the Powersoft load monitoring and real power limiter is pretty great. Also the Powersoft can do multiple HPF/LPF which is a personal fave.
Click to expand...

Just looked at the K3, you're right about the killer power point! Right on the dot for powering the best LF drivers without being too much weight/size/output.

I love how they provide peak voltage and current capability of the amp on the website. Takes all the "power" crap out of the equation. I also like using multiple HPF/LPF filters in series, so that is a very nice selling point, too.

Such quality is likely pricey?
 
Re: High quality power amps with onboard DSP and load monitoring.

The powersoft design is based on lots of semiconductor components in parallel as to how reliable this is I don’t know but their K series of amplifiers been out on tours for some time now therefore this removes the doubt of paralleling issues.

Franz Francis
 
Re: High quality power amps with onboard DSP and load monitoring.

Franz Francis said:
The powersoft design is based on lots of semiconductor components in parallel as to how reliable this is I don’t know but their K series of amplifiers been out on tours for some time now therefore this removes the doubt of paralleling issues.

Franz Francis
Click to expand...

Every amp design has multiple output devices in parallel :roll:
 
Re: High quality power amps with onboard DSP and load monitoring.

Phil Graham said:
Every amp design has multiple output devices in parallel :roll:
Click to expand...

Paralleling output devices in analog power amp stages is indeed routine above a certain power point, and more so since plastic packages replaced metal can transistors. The common practice is to use (small value) series resistor degeneration to improve sharing between devices.

Paralleling saturated switch power devices, OTOH is not quite as simple or as common. I have asked people smarter than me about such things, and they say it can be done. That said I have never seen it done on any of the amps I was involved with pimping.

In fact there are class D output topologies, variants on bridging where two output stages drive differentially, that were attractive precisely because they got to involve two times the power devices for twice the power dissipation while avoiding the need to parallel any devices. Twice the voltage swing was also a useful characteristic of that alternate topology.

I don't doubt that this (paralleling saturated switches) can and is being done but it isn't common (AFAIK) in saturated switch power stages, so the posters concern is perhaps worth inspection, while the bottom line is how do they work in the field? If they had a serious reliability issue, the market would quickly find out. Second guessing under the hood decisions is good sport, and fodder for competing makers to attack, but not necessarily important, if the design is conservative and robust.

JR
 
Re: High quality power amps with onboard DSP and load monitoring.

Phil Graham said:
Every amp design has multiple output devices in parallel :roll:
Click to expand...
There is more paralleling in the output devices and other stages of the Powersoft K series compared to Lab gruppen’s FP + series. I’ve opened and compared both amps. The only paralleling in the Lab gruppen is in the output stages and is less than a dozen output devices.

Franz
 
Re: High quality power amps with onboard DSP and load monitoring.

Franz Francis said:
There is more paralleling in the output devices and other stages of the Powersoft K series compared to Lab gruppen’s FP + series. I’ve opened and compared both amps. The only paralleling in the Lab gruppen is in the output stages and is less than a dozen output devices.

Franz
Click to expand...

Not sure why that matters. As JR said,
Second guessing under the hood decisions is good sport, and fodder for competing makers to attack, but not necessarily important, if the design is conservative and robust.
Click to expand...

IIRC, the QSC PL380 only uses ONE insane output device per channel.
 
Re: High quality power amps with onboard DSP and load monitoring.

Yup, you can pretty much trace the trajectory of class D power amps power points to device technology (voltage-current product) over the years.

[TMI] My concern about paralleling switched devices is they will never switch on at exactly the same instant. So in principle with 3 or 4 switched devices in parallel, the first to switch on could momentarily see 3x or 4x the final shared current it will have to support. Sizing the devices to handle this peak current would pretty much defeat the benefit of paralleling. It is helpful to be driving a somewhat inductive load, so that the rise time of the load current gives the other devices time to catch up and get all turned on before the load current reaches maximum. But like i said, I haven't seen this done, so it probably isn't completely this simple to manage. [/TMI]

JR
 
Re: High quality power amps with onboard DSP and load monitoring.

I am a fan of Powersoft amps. I have 12 K3DSPs and various other models (K10DSP, Q4004). I also have 20 x Lab Gruppen FP6400s. The K3 is not as deep and not as costly as the K6-10 series. They are all very reliable, even more than the LGs from my experience. The FP6400s are used on my L-Acoustics system. On one occasion I could not use the FP6400s on the L-Acoustics subs so we used
the K3s instead. My system engineer said that the Powersofts sounded noticeably better than the FP6400s on these subs.
 
Re: High quality power amps with onboard DSP and load monitoring.

Phil Graham said:
Just looked at the K3, you're right about the killer power point! Right on the dot for powering the best LF drivers without being too much weight/size/output.

....

Such quality is likely pricey?
Click to expand...

The K3 DSP+AESOP retails for $5856. The K2 DSP+AESOP is not far behind (less than 2db) in the power department, and retails for $4993. It will be a happy day when a customer wants to buy this level of quality :)

Grant
 
Re: High quality power amps with onboard DSP and load monitoring.

Silas Pradetto said:
Not sure why that matters. As JR said,

IIRC, the QSC PL380 only uses ONE insane output device per channel.
Click to expand...

Ummm - TWO (one up, one down)
Last amp I saw (before the PL380) that got away with only 2 output devices and had those power levels
weighed several hundred pounds, was the size of a refrigerator and was thermionic.
M
 
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Re: High quality power amps with onboard DSP and load monitoring.

Yea but you can only play Pong on D&B amps so clearly there is no contest. :)
 
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