How do you organize your time between clients for maximum value?

[Nathan Lively]

Would you rather work the same night every week at venue X, Y, and Z or pick and choose the events from their calendar? What criteria are you using to make this decision?

For me, it's money and regularity. I would rather work every Monday and Tuesday at venue X and every Wednesday at venue Y, but I realized recently that most sound engineers will answer this question differently. Maybe you would rather be the full-time house sound engineer and production manager. What do you value?

 

[Evan F. Hunter]

Re: How do you organize your time between clients for maximum value?

Would you rather work the same night every week at venue X, Y, and Z or pick and choose the events from their calendar? What criteria are you using to make this decision?

For me, it's money and regularity. I would rather work every Monday and Tuesday at venue X and every Wednesday at venue Y, but I realized recently that most sound engineers will answer this question differently. Maybe you would rather be the full-time house sound engineer and production manager. What do you value?

I find that regularity is money, and comfort. If you have a set schedule you know approx how much you are bringing in each week, you know the venues, the managers etc etc. But I also found that once I got into a weekly set schedule I lost out on higher paying gigs often because of already being schedule those days. But the higher paying gigs may not come as often as current regularity. All depends on how busy you are and what you enjoy or what is most profitable to you.

 

[RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS]

Re: How do you organize your time between clients for maximum value?

That's a tough decision for us little guys with limited resources. I have grown my company quite a bit in the last few years to where we are able to do multiple events in the same days/weekends. I do have a few customers that get priority due to the large number of booking at I get from them. I have other annual events that I do that I prebook every year and they know that they will get the same rig every year. It may prevent me from getting other gigs those days but I know I have the gig and the relationship.

I definitely don't look at just the price of the gig for which gig to take. I look at the bottom line as well as the relationship and the long term upside potential for my business. It may be the that the $2000 gig is the better gig to take rather than the $4500 gig depending on other factors. Luckily I have been able to do most of them and not turn many down for quite a long tine now.

 

[Nathan Lively]

Re: How do you organize your time between clients for maximum value?

@Evan F. Hunter - Exactly! So hard to make financial plans when things are up and down. What is your current schedule?

@Ryan Loudmusic Jenkins - Client relationship is a value I didn't think of, but a good one. Recently I took a gig when someone was sick because I thought, "Wow, if the next time I'm sick and I can't find a sub, that would be really sad."

BTW, not sure why this thread ended up in Junior Varsity. Oh well.

 

[Evan F. Hunter]

Re: How do you organize your time between clients for maximum value?

@Evan F. Hunter - Exactly! So hard to make financial plans when things are up and down. What is your current schedule?

@Ryan Loudmusic Jenkins - Client relationship is a value I didn't think of, but a good one. Recently I took a gig when someone was sick because I thought, "Wow, if the next time I'm sick and I can't find a sub, that would be really sad."

BTW, not sure why this thread ended up in Junior Varsity. Oh well.

Nathan, Ive just relocated to Houston Texas, Before I was in a venue 5-7 days a week in Cleveland Ohio and had several one offs 2-3 times a month. Since Ive moved it is very slow business wise. Ive always been a one man operation so it makes it tough to squeeze in different gigs on the same date. However I have done a concert one night, come in the next morning and did and orchestra and then stayed and did another concert that night. AKA 3 shows in two days but its not often that schedule will line up.

 

[Brian jojade]

Re: How do you organize your time between clients for maximum value?

This is a great discussion to have, and it is a very important decision to make. It certainly needs to be part of your business plan.

Working a regularly scheduled gig is great, because you don't have to dedicate nearly as many resources in sales, planning, etc to pull the gig off. Unless you're extremely lucky, the regular weekly gig is going to gross less than the one off, but the bottom line profit should be nearly equal. The regularity of the gigs will likely mean more total profit as well, unless you were able to do sales enough to be booked that often.

The downside of a regularly scheduled gig is that it could end abruptly on you. If you're not structured to fill in that lost income quickly, it could create a world of hurt if you lost your major revenue stream. When you're booking one offs, if you have a week without a show, it can sting, but then the next week, you can have more jobs and all is back on track. Replacing a regular weekly gig isn't likely to happen on short order.

Creating a business that does both is possible, especially if you have staff available and gear to handle multiple jobs. If you're a single op with enough gear for one show, the regularly scheduled gig will likely conflict with taking on more shows. The growth of the company then becomes limited, as your inventory of available dates becomes quite small.

 

[Nathan Lively]

Re: How do you organize your time between clients for maximum value?

Time is a limited resource. I guess the only way to scale your business as a sound engineer is to rent out equipment and hire staff or contractors to handle more work. I've yet to learn how to fill my schedule. There are often still big ups and downs with two weeks with no work and then 4 days of full-days events.

 

[Tim McCulloch]

Re: How do you organize your time between clients for maximum value?

Time is a limited resource. I guess the only way to scale your business as a sound engineer is to rent out equipment and hire staff or contractors to handle more work. I've yet to learn how to fill my schedule. There are often still big ups and downs with two weeks with no work and then 4 days of full-days events.

YOUR time is a limited resource. It is an asset to managed and you are right to be thinking about it like this.

I hear your frustration about the 'feast or famine' aspect of the biz... and to cap it off, those 4 days you're working 20 hour days, there are 4 more events that really wanted you.

If you decide to grow your business, you'll need more capital equipment that needs to be used frequently to pay off. You'll need a worker or 2 that have your attention to detail, manner of working with clients, and in general work for you in a manner that benefits your company. You will need to work them as much as possible, or they'll find another gig or <gasp> a job.

You will transition from engineer and mixerperson to salesman and supervisor. This is a big step and a fair number of folks can't make the transfer.

There is a lot to be said for staying small...

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

 

[Jay Barracato]

YOUR time is a limited resource. It is an asset to managed and you are right to be thinking about it like this.



There is a lot to be said for staying small...

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

I have three times in my life grown "hobby" businesses to the point where either I could not fulfill the demands on my time or I had to take on and manage additional help. To me a hobby business is one you do for fun but makes enough income that you need to deal with evils like the tax man.

Whether it was building custom fishing rods, tying flies for fishing, or speaking and writing about science education, it became obvious that all were work rather than hobby when you come home from the regular 9-5 and have to work at that hobby to meet your obligations regardless of how you feel.

When I started back at sound seriously I thought I had three choices:
1.take a house gig and mix whom ever was booked.
2. Set up as a provider and hustle gigs for myself.
3. Specialize as a BE, choose who I want to work with and cover their shows.

Knowing that I personally never enjoyed the selling aspect of any of these, I went with plan 3. I only had to sell myself a couple of times and I could really choose the people that I wanted to be around.

But I still managed to get so busy I burned myself out. ( To put this in perspective, I am a weekend warrior during the school year and then add additional shows during the week during the summer. Still I managed over 175 shows last year, and if I keep up my pace for the rest of this year will be about 200).

I am now doing more of my shows within a couple hours of home. I have 2 main bands that book me for their shows on a regular basis, and about 6 other bands that contact me for their bigger local shows. But since by my own choice I am not traveling as much, I still had some significant gaps in my schedule, like three weeks this month when my main band goes to great Britain without me.

During the winter months I started a small (175 capacity) bluegrass series in conjunction with Fairfax county parks.

I have also started doing walkup shows for another company, at approximately 2/3 of the pay I would generally get at the other venues in town for the same type of walk up show.

It is worth it to me to have the other company taking a chunk of the already pretty small bar pay so I don't have to worry about any of the administrative details. If I have a commitment to one of my bands, or a one of that is higher paying, or i simply dont feel like working, then it is someone else's worry about covering those gigs.

The venue I have been doing most of these shows at is a newly opened large bar/ small club (capacity 600-700?) that has a reasonable club system and books the larger regional cover bands. It says something about the state of our industry that EVERY band I have done there has commented on the quality of the sound and asked about hiring me freelance for walkup shows in other clubs, not as a provider, but as a mixer. But if you think about it, how is anyone with experience going to make it at a minimum paying house gig that only books 2 shows a week?

Jay "Keeping it small" B

 

[Loren Aguey]

Re: How do you organize your time between clients for maximum value?

Personally I enjoy the variety and flexibility over a set schedule. I have my weekend club gig which is basically my fun, no stress gig where I mix pretty much every type of music except metal. It's a great variety compared to the rock/indie clubs I've worked at in the past and I can always sub it out if I get a higher paying gig. Then I freelance for concert and corporate companies that obviously pay more, and do the odd bit of touring.

I've been a full time club guy at one club and then one day with zero warning I get a text saying its been shut down. So these days I'm much more reluctant to have all my eggs in one basket. Both have their pro's and cons but generally one thing I enjoy about my situation making my living as a sound guy is one day I'll be wearing a suit mixing a discussion about the civil war at the New York Historical Society, later that night mixing reggae bands and world music at my club gig in Harlem, the next day an outdoor show in Central Park, the next day a fashion show etc...I find that it's much harder for me to get bored or burnt out when working compared to being in the same place every day/night.

On the flip side, the only guaranteed income I have is the club gig, which itself is not enough. Some months are better than others but generally I find, (at least when living in a place like NYC) that the longer I'm here and the more contacts I make, the more consistent the choice freelance gigs become, and the more picky I can be when choosing my schedule and taking or declining gigs that are offered. So the concern of having enough work becomes less worrisome as time goes on. In short, for me, the variety is one of my favorite aspects of what we do. Some of the gigs suck, some are great, but that's life in general.

 

[Nathan Lively]

Re: How do you organize your time between clients for maximum value?

Great post Jay.
What are "walkup shows"?

 

[Nathan Lively]

Re: How do you organize your time between clients for maximum value?

@Tim and @Jay - So it sounds like "keeping it small" means that you don't own equipment for rent. But does that make sense? The top paid position in concert touring is the FOH Engineer, isn't it? This fact makes me feel justified in not owning equipment for rent, instead focusing on my services for sale.

@Loren - That sounds like the way to do it. Something regular and fairly stable that continues to bring in income while you maneuver for maximum value the rest of the time.

 

[Jay Barracato]

Shows where I "walkup" to someone else's system or an installed system to run a show.

For the current bar gig everything is in place, I just bring a mic kit and my measurement rig. The measurement briefcase also has a selection of adapters, etc and basic tools.

 

[Tim McCulloch]

Re: How do you organize your time between clients for maximum value?

Own the tools necessary to learn your craft. The costs of ownership should be built into your fee. If the client needs a system or specific items and you wish to supply them, you should charge appropriately for them.

In the end, clients are paying you because you provided a result they are happy with. Question yourself and determine how much of that result is based solely on the equipment choices and how much is the result of your training, experience and creativity. That amount is what your efforts are worth, the rest is equipment. If the equipment can come from anywhere, and you're not making a ROI from it, let someone else own the gear.

 

[Karl Barnes]

Re: How do you organize your time between clients for maximum value?

Shows where I "walkup" to someone else's system or an installed system to run a show.

For the current bar gig everything is in place, I just bring a mic kit and my measurement rig. The measurement briefcase also has a selection of adapters, etc and basic tools.

Also known as 'white glove' gigs.
You can turn up wearing white gloves and they won't get dirty because you won't be required to unload/setup/lift, etc.
You turn up, use the installed equipment and leave at the end of the night.
With the right venue and the right equipment, white glove gigs are a dream (for me that was a DM2000 and D&B C system).
Other times, you're fighting the inadequacies of the system (low channel count/dead equipment, etc).

Karl.

 

[Max Warasila]

Re: How do you organize your time between clients for maximum value?

<snip>
During the winter months I started a small (175 capacity) bluegrass series in conjunction with Fairfax county parks.

<snip>
The venue I have been doing most of these shows at is a newly opened large bar/ small club (capacity 600-700?) that has a reasonable club system and books the larger regional cover bands. It says something about the state of our industry that EVERY band I have done there has commented on the quality of the sound and asked about hiring me freelance for walkup shows in other clubs, not as a provider, but as a mixer. But if you think about it, how is anyone with experience going to make it at a minimum paying house gig that only books 2 shows a week?

Jay "Keeping it small" B

Hey I know those bluegrass things... good to know they go over well. I've also been trying to find another place to get out to when I get the chance that I can count on good sound (read: not done by the bar manager), so if you would be willing to message me the name of that club I'd like to take a trip over and listen to something... less than grating without the arena feel, shall we say.

I personally think that if you can afford it, having any equipment that you might need accessible to you at a moments notice can be a lifesaver. While I mostly use the house systems where I work, I always have backup/extra stuff in the truck for when and if I need it. It ensures that even a destroyed working environment can provide decent quality sound in a pinch. Of course... when the drivers are all blown and such, there isn't much one can do.