Looking for pro comps to be used as brickwall limiting for IEMs. I know dominators used to be king but it's been a while since I heard that. For those that want the additional safety of external limiters before the transmitter, what are you using?
IEM Limiters
- Thread starter Andrew Broughton
- Start date
Re: IEM Limiters
Aphex Dominator II, although I'm not using them for IEMs. IMHO there hasn't been another hardware limiter since it came out that does as well.
Properly used, URIE 1176LN would make great IEM limiters, too. Kinda big, though, at 2 spaces per channel.
Aphex Dominator II, although I'm not using them for IEMs. IMHO there hasn't been another hardware limiter since it came out that does as well.
Properly used, URIE 1176LN would make great IEM limiters, too. Kinda big, though, at 2 spaces per channel.
Re: IEM Limiters
I stopped using Dominators several years ago and only use the limiters in the pack. Right now I'm using 60 outputs, with 22 stereo ear mixes. No problems.
I stopped using Dominators several years ago and only use the limiters in the pack. Right now I'm using 60 outputs, with 22 stereo ear mixes. No problems.
Re: IEM Limiters
I know the limiters in the Tx units are extremely nasty and only useful for keeping the RF level in spec (when using the specified antennas, of course).
So far I am not using any external limiters. I tend to use on-board compressors in whatever desk I use but mainly I stay away from the limit. On my way I noticed the big difference between the Sennheiser IEM300 G2, G3 and IEM2000 (which is a great piece of gear). Plus, I go hard wired for drummers and keyboarders whenever I can.
Did you have problems in that area?
I know the limiters in the Tx units are extremely nasty and only useful for keeping the RF level in spec (when using the specified antennas, of course).
So far I am not using any external limiters. I tend to use on-board compressors in whatever desk I use but mainly I stay away from the limit. On my way I noticed the big difference between the Sennheiser IEM300 G2, G3 and IEM2000 (which is a great piece of gear). Plus, I go hard wired for drummers and keyboarders whenever I can.
Re: IEM Limiters
I would normally trust the limiters in the receivers of the Sennheiser 2000 series that we are using. However, with high-sensitivity ear buds, the limiter in the receiver, even at it's lowest setting of -18 is not low enough to protect the hearing of the musician. I was considering inserting and in-line pad between the hp output and ear bud to lower their sensitivity as one level of protection, but am thinking it would also be good to add additional protection before the transmitter as people have normally done in the past. But - it seems from the responses here that this is no longer the norm.
I would normally trust the limiters in the receivers of the Sennheiser 2000 series that we are using. However, with high-sensitivity ear buds, the limiter in the receiver, even at it's lowest setting of -18 is not low enough to protect the hearing of the musician. I was considering inserting and in-line pad between the hp output and ear bud to lower their sensitivity as one level of protection, but am thinking it would also be good to add additional protection before the transmitter as people have normally done in the past. But - it seems from the responses here that this is no longer the norm.
Re: IEM Limiters
Ah, completely different issue, Andy. I was thinking about SNR and not hitting the Tx limiters.
Receiver-side limiting in order to protect hearing has been difficult and has gotten even more difficult with more brands of ear buds that have very different impedances. I don't have a good idea at the moment, apart from the Sensaphonics dB check unit. Of course, the ear bud model list will be very limited to Sensaphonics and some Shure models.
Ah, completely different issue, Andy. I was thinking about SNR and not hitting the Tx limiters.
Receiver-side limiting in order to protect hearing has been difficult and has gotten even more difficult with more brands of ear buds that have very different impedances. I don't have a good idea at the moment, apart from the Sensaphonics dB check unit. Of course, the ear bud model list will be very limited to Sensaphonics and some Shure models.
Re: IEM Limiters
Wouldn't it be possible to calculate a limiter setting in the same matter as we calculate loudspeaker limiters? It seems we have all the same details, such as sensitivity, impedance, power output from the pack, etc. Just work the math backwards from whatever SPL limit you want, say 95 dBA.
Just kicking around the idea, going to read some specs now...
Wouldn't it be possible to calculate a limiter setting in the same matter as we calculate loudspeaker limiters? It seems we have all the same details, such as sensitivity, impedance, power output from the pack, etc. Just work the math backwards from whatever SPL limit you want, say 95 dBA.
Just kicking around the idea, going to read some specs now...
Re: IEM Limiters
Second most significant: The G3, 2000 are more stable in stereo mode with multipath issues.
Most significant: The 2000 have more headroom.
Second most significant: The G3, 2000 are more stable in stereo mode with multipath issues.
Re: IEM Limiters
I have a bunch of TC Finalizer 96K units for mix inserts. Originally we did this so we could take the iem rack and patch into any analog console on a fly-in or festival and start with a basic mix eq as well as limiting.
When the console switched to digital I kept them (inserted through AES i/o) so there would be a familiar starting point.
They have worked well.
I have a bunch of TC Finalizer 96K units for mix inserts. Originally we did this so we could take the iem rack and patch into any analog console on a fly-in or festival and start with a basic mix eq as well as limiting.
When the console switched to digital I kept them (inserted through AES i/o) so there would be a familiar starting point.
They have worked well.
Re: IEM Limiters
Have you checked the overall latency for that setup? Would be interesting to know if the inserted Finalizer adds significant latency or not.
Re: IEM Limiters
On the old analog desk we ran them at 96k to lower the latency to .27ms. Nobody complained.
In the digital setup...they are on AES i/o so no A/d and D/A conversion and they are clocked with the desk so there is no sample rate conversion happening either.
The console latency is under 2ms and still nobody complains.
It is the end of a long week, but I think that all makes sense!
On the old analog desk we ran them at 96k to lower the latency to .27ms. Nobody complained.
In the digital setup...they are on AES i/o so no A/d and D/A conversion and they are clocked with the desk so there is no sample rate conversion happening either.
The console latency is under 2ms and still nobody complains.
It is the end of a long week, but I think that all makes sense!
Re: IEM Limiters
Don't assume this: The Rane DSPs that we (theater) use have (according to Rane) more latency digital-in to digital-out than analog-in to analog-out. Don't understand it myself.
Don't assume this: The Rane DSPs that we (theater) use have (according to Rane) more latency digital-in to digital-out than analog-in to analog-out. Don't understand it myself.
Re: IEM Limiters
That's why I asked for a check.
I'm still hunting latency issues which manifest as tonal issues in the singer's heads. Seems to be no big difference between 1 and 3 ms (not nice but performers are / get used to it), no colouring when we have zero latency (completely analog setup), unusable over 4-5 ms.
As well as the old PM5D -> Galileo issue, where SRC is applied by Meyer and raises the latency. In that case the overall latency is lowered by going analog in between.
That's why I asked for a check.
I'm still hunting latency issues which manifest as tonal issues in the singer's heads. Seems to be no big difference between 1 and 3 ms (not nice but performers are / get used to it), no colouring when we have zero latency (completely analog setup), unusable over 4-5 ms.