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Junior Varsity
Inadequate Sub Power For a Venue... Tips/Tricks/Help
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<blockquote data-quote="Ivan Beaver" data-source="post: 121690" data-attributes="member: 30"><p>Re: Inadequate Sub Power For a Venue... Tips/Tricks/Help</p><p></p><p>Using a "bigger amp" may not be a good idea.</p><p></p><p>How accurate are the wattage specs on the subs vs the Crest amps?</p><p></p><p>Do you trust them to be correct?</p><p></p><p>What makes you feel a bigger amp will help? THe difference between 1800 and 1400 watts is 1dB. I challenge you to hear that difference in a live band situation.</p><p></p><p>There may be other differences between the amps-but who knows untill they are tested in the same manner.</p><p></p><p>Remember that twice the power is a just barely noticeable increase in level-WITH A LOT more increase in heat to the loudspeakers.</p><p></p><p>If it were me-I would stick with the current amps-especially since they did not blow up the speakers last year.</p><p></p><p>It may not be your decision to use more gear (think TWICE the number of subs to start to make a noticable difference. 1 or 2 more is not really going to change anything), but are they requiring you to make it louder? If so-then somebody needs to make a decision-on gear and money.</p><p></p><p>Having a copy of Smaart does not do any good-unless you know how to use it and understand what it is telling you and know how to make the proper adjustments on the crossover. Is the issue time? or response?-or polarity?-or ? or eq? etc. Using the wrong one to try and fix a problem may make other areas worse.</p><p></p><p>I doubt the mains will go low enough to help out the subs-the best you could do would be to get a decent alignment to help the sound quality in the crossover region.</p><p></p><p>The simple answer is more gear-whether it is your decision or not-that needs to be brought to the attention of the "decision makers".</p><p></p><p>The only way to properly set the processing to HELP prevent tearing them up is to have a GOOD knowledge of the ACTUAL power capacity/freq response etc.</p><p></p><p>Those do not come from the spec sheets and have to be measured. THEN you can start to think about what to do with the processing.</p><p></p><p>The important things that should come first are: exactly where is the power compression of woofers? And what test stimulus are you using to test that with? THe old standards (IEC/AES etc) have a low freq that is rolled off. In my opinion this does not represent what is happening in much of todays modern music.</p><p></p><p>You need to know where the native response of the woofers start to roll off-and place a highpass filter so as to not allow anything to go below that.</p><p></p><p>Note: the freq of rolloff and the freq of the filter are NOT the same. The best way is to measure the response-with a highpass (I recommend 24dB BUtterworth) at 20Hz. Save the trace-then raise the filter freq until the low end just starts to decrease.</p><p></p><p>That is a good STARTING point. Depending on musical style-it may need to be higher or could be lowered and a boost put in-but NOT if the system is being pushed hard-like in your case.</p><p></p><p>The simple answer is you are going to be hard pressed to get a noticeable difference in output by simply aligning them.</p><p></p><p>Sorry.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ivan Beaver, post: 121690, member: 30"] Re: Inadequate Sub Power For a Venue... Tips/Tricks/Help Using a "bigger amp" may not be a good idea. How accurate are the wattage specs on the subs vs the Crest amps? Do you trust them to be correct? What makes you feel a bigger amp will help? THe difference between 1800 and 1400 watts is 1dB. I challenge you to hear that difference in a live band situation. There may be other differences between the amps-but who knows untill they are tested in the same manner. Remember that twice the power is a just barely noticeable increase in level-WITH A LOT more increase in heat to the loudspeakers. If it were me-I would stick with the current amps-especially since they did not blow up the speakers last year. It may not be your decision to use more gear (think TWICE the number of subs to start to make a noticable difference. 1 or 2 more is not really going to change anything), but are they requiring you to make it louder? If so-then somebody needs to make a decision-on gear and money. Having a copy of Smaart does not do any good-unless you know how to use it and understand what it is telling you and know how to make the proper adjustments on the crossover. Is the issue time? or response?-or polarity?-or ? or eq? etc. Using the wrong one to try and fix a problem may make other areas worse. I doubt the mains will go low enough to help out the subs-the best you could do would be to get a decent alignment to help the sound quality in the crossover region. The simple answer is more gear-whether it is your decision or not-that needs to be brought to the attention of the "decision makers". The only way to properly set the processing to HELP prevent tearing them up is to have a GOOD knowledge of the ACTUAL power capacity/freq response etc. Those do not come from the spec sheets and have to be measured. THEN you can start to think about what to do with the processing. The important things that should come first are: exactly where is the power compression of woofers? And what test stimulus are you using to test that with? THe old standards (IEC/AES etc) have a low freq that is rolled off. In my opinion this does not represent what is happening in much of todays modern music. You need to know where the native response of the woofers start to roll off-and place a highpass filter so as to not allow anything to go below that. Note: the freq of rolloff and the freq of the filter are NOT the same. The best way is to measure the response-with a highpass (I recommend 24dB BUtterworth) at 20Hz. Save the trace-then raise the filter freq until the low end just starts to decrease. That is a good STARTING point. Depending on musical style-it may need to be higher or could be lowered and a boost put in-but NOT if the system is being pushed hard-like in your case. The simple answer is you are going to be hard pressed to get a noticeable difference in output by simply aligning them. Sorry. [/QUOTE]
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