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Infocomm???
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<blockquote data-quote="Tom Danley" data-source="post: 141489" data-attributes="member: 259"><p>Re: Infocomm???</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hi Peter</p><p>Line arrays are a compromise both in obvious and un-obvious ways and a strong part of what the customer demands is a result of the carpet bombing of marketing hype done to promote the virtues of line arrays. While one rarely hears the old lie “these line arrays spl falls off at half the rate”, there is still a great deal of misunderstanding out there and also as pointed out on other forums, sound quality is pretty far down on the list of what matters in live sound. This is why we have not tried to market to the live sound area, it is an uphill battle trying to explain the flaws in something so heavily promoted so much so few believe it, especially for a company like us that does not market or advertise much.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, 17 years ago when i developed the Unity horn, the precursor to the Synergy horn, none of the line array cabinets looked anything like or tried to address the things the Unity did but now many /most line array designs have a strong resemblance so at least the design engineers increasingly recognize these factors do matter. </p><p></p><p>The nub is, if one makes an array of line sources, doubling the number of boxes only raises the far field SPL about 3 dB once they are too far apart to add coherently . </p><p>The interference pattern they generate makes the off axis SPL highly variable and so one must aim the boxes so that the listeners are within the pattern and even then, the response changes as a function of distance and position and has a limited useful “throw” where the response is acceptable. Further, having multiple sources of radiation also means that any transient information is smeared out in time reducing intelligibility and this is very measurable. </p><p>In commercial sound voice intelligibility is often a requirement and measured via STIpa.</p><p>An easy to picture transient would be a record tick or pop, a naked transient. Played through an array, there is the first arrival from the closest box all the way to the last arrival from the farthest box and this may well be a number of milliseconds behind the first. Yes one can optimize the arrivals at one spot with dsp but that correction only applies in one spot, everywhere else is different because everywhere else has different path lengths.</p><p>Within a Synergy horn, doubling the number of drivers raises the SPL about 6 dB and increasing the horn dimensions further reduces the SPL off axis , up down to the sides and rear (a great thing in a room) and both of these improve intelligibility (as suggested in the Hopkins Stryker equation).</p><p></p><p>This is why a single J-3 (like the one in the previous link) can produce about the same SPL with much greater and even pristine sound quality than a dozen medium sized line array boxes at 200 feet. </p><p> </p><p>Yes, it is heavier than one line array box but much lighter and cheaper than 12 and because they are much more “constant directivity”, they sound fine even well off axis (as in the video above), they are just quieter but by choosing the mounting height and angle, can produce a near constant SPL with the same frequency response over a considerable distance. </p><p>Here scalability is a matter of choosing one powerful enough for the large distance and turning it down in a smaller venue. </p><p>Unlike making a larger and larger line array the sound quality does not suffer with increasing size as even the largest one (the Caleb which covers the far end of the Iowa Hawkeye stadium over 800 feet away) still acts like /sounds like / measures like one driver.</p><p>In the large room / stadium area though, the customers generally already have line arrays that they are unhappy with and VERY FEW give a rats behind what name they have or who’s on tour with them so doing a demo with a visually tiny system that blows the line array away in sound quality and evenness of coverage has made that area a very good market for us where live sound is a hard nut to crack. </p><p>My background and even more so Ivan’s is live sound however and when you hear what can be done live compared to the familiar solutions. , there is no going back to line arrays. </p><p>My hope was that at least a few folks would listen to the videos where I think even that way one can tell these large synergy horns are very different sonically than line arrays but no one has commented on them.</p><p>Best,</p><p>Tom</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tom Danley, post: 141489, member: 259"] Re: Infocomm??? Hi Peter Line arrays are a compromise both in obvious and un-obvious ways and a strong part of what the customer demands is a result of the carpet bombing of marketing hype done to promote the virtues of line arrays. While one rarely hears the old lie “these line arrays spl falls off at half the rate”, there is still a great deal of misunderstanding out there and also as pointed out on other forums, sound quality is pretty far down on the list of what matters in live sound. This is why we have not tried to market to the live sound area, it is an uphill battle trying to explain the flaws in something so heavily promoted so much so few believe it, especially for a company like us that does not market or advertise much. On the other hand, 17 years ago when i developed the Unity horn, the precursor to the Synergy horn, none of the line array cabinets looked anything like or tried to address the things the Unity did but now many /most line array designs have a strong resemblance so at least the design engineers increasingly recognize these factors do matter. The nub is, if one makes an array of line sources, doubling the number of boxes only raises the far field SPL about 3 dB once they are too far apart to add coherently . The interference pattern they generate makes the off axis SPL highly variable and so one must aim the boxes so that the listeners are within the pattern and even then, the response changes as a function of distance and position and has a limited useful “throw” where the response is acceptable. Further, having multiple sources of radiation also means that any transient information is smeared out in time reducing intelligibility and this is very measurable. In commercial sound voice intelligibility is often a requirement and measured via STIpa. An easy to picture transient would be a record tick or pop, a naked transient. Played through an array, there is the first arrival from the closest box all the way to the last arrival from the farthest box and this may well be a number of milliseconds behind the first. Yes one can optimize the arrivals at one spot with dsp but that correction only applies in one spot, everywhere else is different because everywhere else has different path lengths. Within a Synergy horn, doubling the number of drivers raises the SPL about 6 dB and increasing the horn dimensions further reduces the SPL off axis , up down to the sides and rear (a great thing in a room) and both of these improve intelligibility (as suggested in the Hopkins Stryker equation). This is why a single J-3 (like the one in the previous link) can produce about the same SPL with much greater and even pristine sound quality than a dozen medium sized line array boxes at 200 feet. Yes, it is heavier than one line array box but much lighter and cheaper than 12 and because they are much more “constant directivity”, they sound fine even well off axis (as in the video above), they are just quieter but by choosing the mounting height and angle, can produce a near constant SPL with the same frequency response over a considerable distance. Here scalability is a matter of choosing one powerful enough for the large distance and turning it down in a smaller venue. Unlike making a larger and larger line array the sound quality does not suffer with increasing size as even the largest one (the Caleb which covers the far end of the Iowa Hawkeye stadium over 800 feet away) still acts like /sounds like / measures like one driver. In the large room / stadium area though, the customers generally already have line arrays that they are unhappy with and VERY FEW give a rats behind what name they have or who’s on tour with them so doing a demo with a visually tiny system that blows the line array away in sound quality and evenness of coverage has made that area a very good market for us where live sound is a hard nut to crack. My background and even more so Ivan’s is live sound however and when you hear what can be done live compared to the familiar solutions. , there is no going back to line arrays. My hope was that at least a few folks would listen to the videos where I think even that way one can tell these large synergy horns are very different sonically than line arrays but no one has commented on them. Best, Tom [/QUOTE]
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