Do kick drums with no front head have less SPL ? Reason I ask the band I mixed this past weekend had drummer with no front head and got the Audix D6 signal as hot as possible thru Presonus SL 1642 with EV Live X rig with 12's over 18's but hardly no kick in the mix. Which it was a small 100 seater maybe 40 pplin the room and band wasn't that loud on stage. Just lacked any kick in the mix unlike with other bands I mixed in the past had plenty of kick, but their drummers had front kick head with small port hole. Just curious to know ? does not having front kick head lose it's thump power. Sorry for the dumb question
Kick Drum ?
- Thread starter Tommy Stone
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Re: Kick Drum ?
While this is not very intuitive, having two same mass, same tension, heads mounted on the kick drum shifts the pitch of the lowest thud sound up higher than with only one head mounted. The lower fundamental note tuning may put the energy below where the PA high pass is set for. If mic'd the distance from the head matters a bunch. Also where the mic is pointed... pointing toward the middle of the head will give most thump.
Were there any other open mics near the drum? You can try solo or mute one mic at a time to see if there is some cancellation happening.
JR
While this is not very intuitive, having two same mass, same tension, heads mounted on the kick drum shifts the pitch of the lowest thud sound up higher than with only one head mounted. The lower fundamental note tuning may put the energy below where the PA high pass is set for. If mic'd the distance from the head matters a bunch. Also where the mic is pointed... pointing toward the middle of the head will give most thump.
Were there any other open mics near the drum? You can try solo or mute one mic at a time to see if there is some cancellation happening.
JR
Re: Kick Drum ?
Shoulda been fine. where exactly did you position the mic? Ida put it in the drum 4 inches from the head and 4-6 inches away from the beater contact spot.
Shoulda been fine. where exactly did you position the mic? Ida put it in the drum 4 inches from the head and 4-6 inches away from the beater contact spot.
Re: Kick Drum ?
Not having a resonant head wouldn't make the drum any less loud, and if the kick is heavily muffled, as they usually are in old school open kick drums - since unmuffled single head kick drums sound like dog shit - it should sound punchier, with more thump, not less. Unmiced, and side by side with a kick with a resonant head, the headless one should seem louder, because of the extra punch.
Along the lines of what JR was saying, perhaps the subs weren't being engaged by the muffled frequencies, and that's why it sounded anemic in the PA.
A lot of sound guys use kicks more like triggers, so when the lowest frequencies go into a large diaphragm kick mic, the sound (which is not representative of the overall unmiced sound) comes out of the subs magnified to sound like thunder.
Not having a resonant head wouldn't make the drum any less loud, and if the kick is heavily muffled, as they usually are in old school open kick drums - since unmuffled single head kick drums sound like dog shit - it should sound punchier, with more thump, not less. Unmiced, and side by side with a kick with a resonant head, the headless one should seem louder, because of the extra punch.
Along the lines of what JR was saying, perhaps the subs weren't being engaged by the muffled frequencies, and that's why it sounded anemic in the PA.
A lot of sound guys use kicks more like triggers, so when the lowest frequencies go into a large diaphragm kick mic, the sound (which is not representative of the overall unmiced sound) comes out of the subs magnified to sound like thunder.
Re: Kick Drum ?
Another plausible explanation of why you couldn't hear it in the mix would be if this drummer was simply too timid with his foot.
Another plausible explanation of why you couldn't hear it in the mix would be if this drummer was simply too timid with his foot.
Re: Kick Drum ?
BINGO!
In a multi band event using the same drum kit it's always interesting to see which drummers have a foot and which ones have an "invisible" snare. Same snare - same everything - except one guy will appear to be pounding the snare with nothing coming out and another guy will just snap it and the whole room knows it with or without the help of the PA.
BINGO!
In a multi band event using the same drum kit it's always interesting to see which drummers have a foot and which ones have an "invisible" snare. Same snare - same everything - except one guy will appear to be pounding the snare with nothing coming out and another guy will just snap it and the whole room knows it with or without the help of the PA.
Re: Kick Drum ?
If there's a separate drum monitor, levels there could provide the player incorrect feedback about mix levels.
JR
If there's a separate drum monitor, levels there could provide the player incorrect feedback about mix levels.
JR
Re: Kick Drum ?
I had the D6 4-6" away I guess the drummer just had light foot, and to much muffling, I dunno ? just was missing out of the mix. I know the EV Live X subs are not heavy hitting subs, compared to JBL XLF's or Yorkville LS801s but always been plenty for small 100 seater rooms that I mix in. Guess next time I'll couple the subs together. FWIW only had kick mic-ed Anyway, I really appreciate everybody post response. I just wasn't sure if not having a front makes the kick lose SPL or not.
Thanks
I had the D6 4-6" away I guess the drummer just had light foot, and to much muffling, I dunno ? just was missing out of the mix. I know the EV Live X subs are not heavy hitting subs, compared to JBL XLF's or Yorkville LS801s but always been plenty for small 100 seater rooms that I mix in. Guess next time I'll couple the subs together. FWIW only had kick mic-ed Anyway, I really appreciate everybody post response. I just wasn't sure if not having a front makes the kick lose SPL or not.
Thanks
Re: Kick Drum ?
Could be ? since I do use Yorkville NX750P with little bit of kick in the monitor.
Could be ? since I do use Yorkville NX750P with little bit of kick in the monitor.
Re: Kick Drum ?
Did you try flipping polarity on either the mic or the monitor? They could be canceling each other out, or the monitor could be canceling out FOH.
Did you try flipping polarity on either the mic or the monitor? They could be canceling each other out, or the monitor could be canceling out FOH.