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Low Earth Orbit
Pro AV, Staging, & Rigging
Kramer VP-728 vs. VP-438? Other switchers I should consider?
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<blockquote data-quote="Karl Peterson" data-source="post: 89775" data-attributes="member: 4429"><p>Re: Kramer VP-728 vs. VP-438? Other switchers I should consider?</p><p></p><p>I am a video guy <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Frame syncs themselves aren't the problem, a good one will have <span style="color: #444444">≤1 frame of latency.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #444444">In a (common) 60fps system, that would be only about 13ms of delay in and of itself.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #444444">The real issue is end-to-end latency.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #444444">It seems, in general lay-man terms, like we can tolerate up-to about 100ms of delay before it starts to "feel" off. It will take a bit more than that before it visibly "looks" off.</span></p><p></p><p>While having fully locked native-res everything is the sure-fire way to be safe, and has other convinces afforded to it, it isn't strictly necessary for a real-world good-enough scenario.</p><p></p><p>What really kills you is all the up-down-cross conversions.</p><p></p><p>Often times, between a slow-to-act presentation switcher and halve a dozen up-down-cross conversations, you practically begin having already lost.</p><p></p><p>These days I go one of two routes pretty much exclusively.</p><p></p><p>If dealing with IMAG, I go fully HD-SDI. Computers or other non-SDI sources get "real" converters, cameras must have an SDI output. I don't get overly caught up trying to make sure everything is genlocked on the input side. I then use a native HDSDI switcher with frame syncs and SDI out to native SDI displays.</p><p></p><p>This way I am not dealing with lag from the switcher to the displays, and can afford to have the lag on the front side and run cheaper cameras or do weird conversions as necessary.</p><p></p><p>If I am not using cameras I obviously have a lot more play, but will make sure to be using scalers with digital outputs capable of driving my primary displays at their native panel resolution.</p><p></p><p>It gets a bit more tricky when we need cameras, but also the features of the fancier processors (FSN/Spyder/Etc) or we are driving laggy output devices (LED, non-native displays, etc).</p><p></p><p>In that case we need to be much more careful, but at those dollar values you can afford to hire us <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>In short, frame syncs aren't bad in and of themselves, I in fact use them as a general course of action, however you need to be mindful of the delay of the entire chain.</p><p></p><p>Karl P</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Karl Peterson, post: 89775, member: 4429"] Re: Kramer VP-728 vs. VP-438? Other switchers I should consider? I am a video guy :) Frame syncs themselves aren't the problem, a good one will have [COLOR=#444444]≤1 frame of latency.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#444444]In a (common) 60fps system, that would be only about 13ms of delay in and of itself.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#444444]The real issue is end-to-end latency.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#444444]It seems, in general lay-man terms, like we can tolerate up-to about 100ms of delay before it starts to "feel" off. It will take a bit more than that before it visibly "looks" off.[/COLOR] While having fully locked native-res everything is the sure-fire way to be safe, and has other convinces afforded to it, it isn't strictly necessary for a real-world good-enough scenario. What really kills you is all the up-down-cross conversions. Often times, between a slow-to-act presentation switcher and halve a dozen up-down-cross conversations, you practically begin having already lost. These days I go one of two routes pretty much exclusively. If dealing with IMAG, I go fully HD-SDI. Computers or other non-SDI sources get "real" converters, cameras must have an SDI output. I don't get overly caught up trying to make sure everything is genlocked on the input side. I then use a native HDSDI switcher with frame syncs and SDI out to native SDI displays. This way I am not dealing with lag from the switcher to the displays, and can afford to have the lag on the front side and run cheaper cameras or do weird conversions as necessary. If I am not using cameras I obviously have a lot more play, but will make sure to be using scalers with digital outputs capable of driving my primary displays at their native panel resolution. It gets a bit more tricky when we need cameras, but also the features of the fancier processors (FSN/Spyder/Etc) or we are driving laggy output devices (LED, non-native displays, etc). In that case we need to be much more careful, but at those dollar values you can afford to hire us :) In short, frame syncs aren't bad in and of themselves, I in fact use them as a general course of action, however you need to be mindful of the delay of the entire chain. Karl P [/QUOTE]
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