L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

A

Alin Anastasescu

Freshman
Jul 23, 2014
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Bucharest, Romania, Romania
Hello,

I own a small events venue in the eastern part of Europe and after a year of good and bad experiences with rental companies and 90 gigs later I decided to buy my own stuff rather then to rent.
I decided on a used L'Acoustics system made out of 8X Dv-dosc ( 4 per hang) with 4 Sb218. Do you there will be enough SPL for a 800 people venue?
We do all kind of gigs from live to dj sets and from rock to house music ( hitting all the possible other genres like , reggae, hip-hop, drum&bass, Dubstep, Indie and so on)

Also on ti'm undecided on the mixer part. We have arround 3000 euros budget but i ca'nt make my mind between a used Yahama ls9-32 or a Behringer x32 ( i heard a lot of good stuff about the behringer).

Waiting for your opinions,

Thanks,
A
 
Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

I suspect you should talk to an installation expert rather than ask on the internet.

Four line array boxes is often not considered the minimum number to make the array work. How did you determine what to buy if you don't know if it will work?

There is more to it than number of people. What are the dimensions of the room, ceiling height, distance from front of stage to rear of audience etc?

L'accoustics has, I have been told, very strict configuration rules for their products.

You may find that there are other, better solutions out there.

What is your budget?


Sent from my iPad HD
 
Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

Rob Spence said:
I suspect you should talk to an installation expert rather than ask on the internet.

Four line array boxes is often not considered the minimum number to make the array work. How did you determine what to buy if you don't know if it will work?

There is more to it than number of people. What are the dimensions of the room, ceiling height, distance from front of stage to rear of audience etc?

L'accoustics has, I have been told, very strict configuration rules for their products.

You may find that there are other, better solutions out there.

What is your budget?


Sent from my iPad HD
Click to expand...


I talked with so many experts and heard so many opinions that i don't know what to believe anymore, that's why i'm asking on the internet because i want a sincere opinion based on experience that has nothing to do with "i could rent you something else talk".
I'm testing this configuration next week, before buying the same from another country for a better price, but like i said i just needed some recommendations and opinions about the dv-dosc.
18/20 ceiling height 6m, no balconies, distance from front of stage to rear of audience 15 meters. I attached some pictures to make things easier to imagine.
I also have to take in consideration rider friendliness, cross rentals for the summer time when my club is closed and i could earn some money with it, used market value after 1/2 years.
Budget around 30 k euros.











Colectiv 3.jpgColectiv 2.jpgColectiv 1.jpg
 
Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

Without knowing all the details, have a dealer do a model with 6-8 boxes per side to start. They are good speakers, but 4/side is too few other than light music and speech.
 
Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

You're gonna need the dV-dosc subs for the types of music you're dealing with. 4 per side dV-dosc in an 800 cap club might be 'just' enough in my opinion. But, you're going to be completely out of gas in the low mids- between where the SB28's start and the dv-dosc rolls off. 4 dV-dosc subs should get the job done. You'll probably be looking for another pair of tops per side in time, but it'll at least get your started.




Evan
 
Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

The fact that we can't see the right hang in your first photo, and can't see the left hang in your second photo hints that you might want to go LCR or big C with some outfills.
There are prime viewing areas where the listener will get zero direct sound from either cluster.

Jason
 
Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

Jason Lavoie said:
The fact that we can't see the right hang in your first photo, and can't see the left hang in your second photo hints that you might want to go LCR or big C with some outfills.
There are prime viewing areas where the listener will get zero direct sound from either cluster.

Jason
Click to expand...


Yeah, hi Jason, I know that i have a problem with the hangs, i'm going to move the left side hanging point as much to the left as i can, so anywhere you sit in the club you can be directly hit at least by one cluster.
I plan to put o each column 12" delays either full range or just for the mids and highs. A center fill also crossed my mind. But excepting this for the start do you think 4XDv-Dosc by Hang + 2 Xsb218 will generate enough SPL?

What about the mixer x32 or ls9-32?

Thanks,
 
Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

Alin Anastasescu said:
Yeah, hi Jason, I know that i have a problem with the hangs, i'm going to move the left side hanging point as much to the left as i can, so anywhere you sit in the club you can be directly hit at least by one cluster.
I plan to put o each column 12" delays either full range or just for the mids and highs. A center fill also crossed my mind. But excepting this for the start do you think 4XDv-Dosc by Hang + 2 Xsb218 will generate enough SPL?

What about the mixer x32 or ls9-32?

Thanks,
Click to expand...

It's not about generating SPL by combining boxes (proper arrays, vertical or horizontal, don't work that way), it's about selecting the box with the SPL you need, and then properly installing enough of them to provide the coverage required by the audience geometry. This is why I discourage folks from buying insufficient quantities of vertical array speakers, thinking they will add to inventory at a later time. Adding the boxes one should have purchased at the outset *almost never happens*, based on my observations, and leads to audience disappointment and potential conflicts with an artist's production crew. Likewise, installing too many conventional loudspeakers in the horizontal plane creates another set of problems. Loudspeaker installations should be designed for coverage and the products selected based on their ability to deliver the needed SPL over the coverage area.

If you are questioning the ability of the Dv to deliver the SPL you want, I submit you'll be questioning your purchase until you replace it because: it gets blown up or you give multiple refunds to unhappy customers. Distilled down, this tells me you are probably not purchasing the loudspeaker system that you know (deep inside) you really need. This leads to 2 thoughts that we repeat often on these forums:

1- The wrong product at the 'right price' is still the wrong product.
2- Buy once, cry once.

Have fun and good luck with your endeavour.

edit ps. as previously noted, it looks like you're seeking validation of an already-made decision. How many loudspeaker systems do you want to install in this venue? See #2.
 
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Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

Tim McCulloch said:
It's not about generating SPL by combining boxes (proper arrays, vertical or horizontal, don't work that way), it's about selecting the box with the SPL you need, and then properly installing enough of them to provide the coverage required by the audience geometry.
Click to expand...

Preach it, brotha!

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Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

When you did have good sound... Do you remember what system was being supplied?
Also, when there was crap sound... what system came in? What was the problem?


Now, I would say that engineer skills counts towards about 85% of the rigs ability to do what it can do.
 
Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

Alin Anastasescu said:
Hello,
Also on I'm undecided on the mixer part. We have arround 3000 euros budget but i ca'nt make my mind between a used Yahama ls9-32 or a Behringer x32 ( i heard a lot of good stuff about the behringer).
Click to expand...

In a club environment... I would choose the Yamaha LS9-32; its a proven work horse. Also, I think its more noobie engineer friendly than the x32; I can't (comfortably) figure out how to use an x32, while I can hope on a SC48, Profile, SD8 and be comfortable midway through sound check.
 
Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

Alin Anastasescu said:
But excepting this for the start do you think 4XDv-Dosc by Hang + 2 Xsb218 will generate enough SPL?


,
Click to expand...
What is "enough SPL"?

Different people have different opinions on what is "loud". Even if you say "A loud rock band" What does that really mean?

100dBA-106dB A or 112dBA? fast or slow response? Measured where?

While a 6dB increase is "moderate" in terms of perceived SPL it is HUGE in terms of equipment needs/costs.

FIRST you have to determine what is really needed in terms of coverage and SPL. THEN you start looking at what it will take to do the job-and not be running right at max level-so the gear will live longer.
 
Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

Ivan Beaver said:
What is "enough SPL"?

Different people have different opinions on what is "loud". Even if you say "A loud rock band" What does that really mean?

100dBA-106dB A or 112dBA? fast or slow response? Measured where?

While a 6dB increase is "moderate" in terms of perceived SPL it is HUGE in terms of equipment needs/costs.

FIRST you have to determine what is really needed in terms of coverage and SPL. THEN you start looking at what it will take to do the job-and not be running right at max level-so the gear will live longer.
Click to expand...


106 db with a even coverage is more than enough.
 
Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

Alin Anastasescu said:
106 db with a even coverage is more than enough.
Click to expand...
So does that mean 106dB A continuous or peak? Is that 106 dBA or dBC? There is a BIG difference there.

If you consider that "average" musical material has between 10-15dB dynamic range (peaks), then the system has to be capable of 116-121dB output at the back of the room.

A "simple number" often results is a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer.

YES- details matter. ESPECIALLY when asking if a particular product can produce a particular result.

Accurately defining the target is VERY important.

And not that anybody cares-but the A scale is only intended for usage below 85dB. Above that-the C scale is what should be used-at least by the people who write the standards of such things.

The difference between A slow and C peak can be as much as 30dB. Which is only a factor of ONE THOUSAND. It takes quite a different system to produce one unit of measure vs the other.

If you don't specify-then there is no telling what you may end up with.

YOU may know what you are expecting-but different people may have a different thought/opinion. THAT is why the numbers are important. To translate into a language that everybody understands.

That is my just being picky-but it IS important to understand the differences.
 
Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

Look, there's just no way that V-dosc is the right system for your venue. It just isn't.

I don't even know where to start with that place, but hanging two 4-box "line arrays" right behind columns (which I have a feeling is because that's where the hang points can go) is a poor decision.

And more importantly, look at what worked and what didn't work from all the systems you rented in. That's where you'll find the best solution I'd wager.

Finally, if you can find a used SC-48, use that instead of the ls9… it has a little bit more life on it, I think, as well as being a much more forgiving console.
 
Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

Max Warasila said:
Look, there's just no way that V-dosc is the right system for your venue. It just isn't.

I don't even know where to start with that place, but hanging two 4-box "line arrays" right behind columns (which I have a feeling is because that's where the hang points can go) is a poor decision.

And more importantly, look at what worked and what didn't work from all the systems you rented in. That's where you'll find the best solution I'd wager.

Finally, if you can find a used SC-48, use that instead of the ls9… it has a little bit more life on it, I think, as well as being a much more forgiving console.
Click to expand...

The hanging points can be moved wherever i want them to be moved. I will probably go for a LCR like Jason Recomended with somesort of center fill. We are talking about the DV-dosc not the V-dosc and some arguments are welcomed.
Finally is nice that you recommend me a Sc48 but if you can find me one below 4000 euros i will buy 2. I want to by a used Ford Focus or a newer Hyundai because of my budget and you recommend me a Ferrari. Yeah it would be nice if money wasn't a problem but i have to get this done in a really strict budget.

Thanks,

A
 
Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

Alin Anastasescu said:
The hanging points can be moved wherever i want them to be moved. I will probably go for a LCR like Jason Recomended with somesort of center fill. We are talking about the DV-dosc not the V-dosc and some arguments are welcomed.

A
Click to expand...
When you say "LCR" you need to be sure that EACH of the systems can cover the room BY ITSELF-or else some people will suffer sonically.

Now if you are talking about 3 different locations of a mono system-that is a completely different thing-in terms of gear choice-how it is routed-how it is aimed-how it is aligned and so forth.

Simply "throwing up speakers" is often THE WORSE thing you can do. More speakers usually equals WORSE sound quality.

You have to determine WHAT it is that you want to do-what you CAN do and what gear and budget allows.

Doing it RIGHT is usually a bit harder. Doing it WRONG-is real easy-just look at most audio systems ;(
 
Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

It's a challenging room, but with proper design, can yield good results, I agree, an L-C-R system would yield best results, with point source speakers. Or, you can rotate the room using the width and creating a more immersive /intimate experience ..and then a line-array will provide coverage needed. 8 sls9000 would prove better than Dv-dosc plus a pair of EAW DSA-250 ( digital steerable array) for delays and a unique coupling dual 18" sub that kills the sb218 ( even tho v-dosc is one of my fave systems to mix on, not the right solution).


Put some Boom in your bass!!
@audiowiz
 
Re: L'acoustics Dv-Dosc Installation - Recommandation

Have you looked at rcf boxes or rcf drivers in some pre made boxes? Tbh I can see how you could go wrong with buying some pre made subs for a venue if they're being stacked where you mention, however you could consider rcf lf18x451 inside some cbe 18 (I'm recommending them because I'm assuming you won't move the system that often and cyclopses are f***ing heavy!!) Either way the other guys are right, you cant stack in front of colums, but if you move to the side, time align, phase align and do room corrections, I don't think you can go wrong with some nice tapped horns

Good luck
 
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