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Junior Varsity
Line array calculators indoors - some observations and questions
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<blockquote data-quote="TJ Cornish" data-source="post: 125286" data-attributes="member: 162"><p>Re: Line array calculators indoors - some observations and questions</p><p></p><p>Thanks for the responses.</p><p></p><p>Ivan - I don't have RTA pictures. Smaart is on the list eventually. The effect in question was obvious even without measurement, though it would surely be nice to have more detail. I doubt my board has screenshot capability, so I will probably have to resort to phone pictures next time.</p><p></p><p>David - I appreciate the caution about EQ changes on the bottom box. I'm curious as everything in live audio is a compromise if it would be better or worse than turning the whole bottom box down a bit - vs losing the LF output of the box and a bit more pattern control from the longer array.</p><p></p><p>Evan - I did not claim to have a "Line Array" in this post, and am well aware of the limitations of a "dash". It would be wonderful to have the budget to hang 8-12 boxes/side, but for the work I do, that's infeasible, and not necessary anyway. For my events, a flown "dash" is significantly preferable to a ground stack or any array of trap boxes that have the output to do the job due to labor, trim height, and rigging limitations. I don't have pattern control below 500Hz in the array, but that's not my area of concern here - my problem area lies in a range where I actually do have pattern control - 2K and up, or so. </p><p></p><p>Why would you max the angle between boxes? I understand the idea of keeping the angle between boxes constant, but it seems to me that as most boxes including the 4886 don't have the full vertical pattern at extreme high frequencies, that it would be better to use a lower angle - 8° per box or something like that would have fewer HF holes, and that if less than 45° vertical is required, would be better than max angle?</p><p></p><p>Helge - thanks for your datapoints and experiences with the calculator. One of the frustrating things to me about live audio is the challenge of knowing what to care about and what not to. Clearly the room makes a huge difference, and it's frustrating to have relatively small things in the calculator (tenths of a degree in the array hang, temperature and humidity) and there isn't even an "indoor/outdoor" switch, much less settings for wall materials, etc.</p><p></p><p>Tom - I actually did tip the array up - the original model I had suggested a 2° downtilt, and life got better when I adjusted to 0°. I suspect that if I did add a fourth box and set the angle between box 1 and 2 to 2° and subtracted that 2° from the existing angle between box 2 and 3 that would have helped tremendously. I could go a little higher with my stands than I have been, but that then requires (at least with the 3 boxes I have) steeper angles, and I get into HF holes in the pattern. Based on the calculator and a lot of playing around, it seemed where I had it was a good compromise, and also stays out of the way of my lighting.</p><p></p><p>I hope to add a fourth box eventually. I can cheat and run 4 on the yoke without too much additional expense, but going farther than that requires the extremely expensive array frames and Genie/Sumner lifts. </p><p></p><p>The events I have done with this system have been very successful, and I love the headroom of this system. Watching the limiters during very loud playback, I had 10dB left on the 4886 and 4883, and was at the edge of the TH118s. Every time I deploy it I learn something and get better at it. </p><p></p><p> Thanks for the thoughts - keep them coming.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TJ Cornish, post: 125286, member: 162"] Re: Line array calculators indoors - some observations and questions Thanks for the responses. Ivan - I don't have RTA pictures. Smaart is on the list eventually. The effect in question was obvious even without measurement, though it would surely be nice to have more detail. I doubt my board has screenshot capability, so I will probably have to resort to phone pictures next time. David - I appreciate the caution about EQ changes on the bottom box. I'm curious as everything in live audio is a compromise if it would be better or worse than turning the whole bottom box down a bit - vs losing the LF output of the box and a bit more pattern control from the longer array. Evan - I did not claim to have a "Line Array" in this post, and am well aware of the limitations of a "dash". It would be wonderful to have the budget to hang 8-12 boxes/side, but for the work I do, that's infeasible, and not necessary anyway. For my events, a flown "dash" is significantly preferable to a ground stack or any array of trap boxes that have the output to do the job due to labor, trim height, and rigging limitations. I don't have pattern control below 500Hz in the array, but that's not my area of concern here - my problem area lies in a range where I actually do have pattern control - 2K and up, or so. Why would you max the angle between boxes? I understand the idea of keeping the angle between boxes constant, but it seems to me that as most boxes including the 4886 don't have the full vertical pattern at extreme high frequencies, that it would be better to use a lower angle - 8° per box or something like that would have fewer HF holes, and that if less than 45° vertical is required, would be better than max angle? Helge - thanks for your datapoints and experiences with the calculator. One of the frustrating things to me about live audio is the challenge of knowing what to care about and what not to. Clearly the room makes a huge difference, and it's frustrating to have relatively small things in the calculator (tenths of a degree in the array hang, temperature and humidity) and there isn't even an "indoor/outdoor" switch, much less settings for wall materials, etc. Tom - I actually did tip the array up - the original model I had suggested a 2° downtilt, and life got better when I adjusted to 0°. I suspect that if I did add a fourth box and set the angle between box 1 and 2 to 2° and subtracted that 2° from the existing angle between box 2 and 3 that would have helped tremendously. I could go a little higher with my stands than I have been, but that then requires (at least with the 3 boxes I have) steeper angles, and I get into HF holes in the pattern. Based on the calculator and a lot of playing around, it seemed where I had it was a good compromise, and also stays out of the way of my lighting. I hope to add a fourth box eventually. I can cheat and run 4 on the yoke without too much additional expense, but going farther than that requires the extremely expensive array frames and Genie/Sumner lifts. The events I have done with this system have been very successful, and I love the headroom of this system. Watching the limiters during very loud playback, I had 10dB left on the 4886 and 4883, and was at the edge of the TH118s. Every time I deploy it I learn something and get better at it. Thanks for the thoughts - keep them coming. [/QUOTE]
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