Midas Pro Series Consoles Recording Setup

E

Evan F. Hunter

Junior
Jan 11, 2011
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Houston, Texas
For those of you out with the Midas Pro Series consoles, If you are multi tracking your live shows what setup did you choose for recording and why? Is anyone multi tracking directly to a computer somehow or with an AES50 PCI card? Are there any budget friendly options to get at least 24 but preferably 32 channels available. This setup will be used with a Pro1.

The Klark Teknik DN9696 is really overkill for me and last price I saw on that was almost $14K! Roese Production Management makes some pretty cool options it looks like.
 
Re: Midas Pro Series Consoles Recording Setup

Evan, we tour with a pair of Midas Pro2 Consoles. We looked at the RPM Dynamics solution, and were unable to get a response to our inquiry of pricing and information directly to RPM. We also considered the JoeCo Blackbox MADI with a KT9650 network bridge, but had reservations due to the potential problems with conversion and interface issues. We decided to bite the bullet and go with the KT9696. The tracks are coming out great and the integration is flawless. We use the machine solely for capturing the performance and the soundcheck feature only. Mind you the box is a windows XP box and fairly dated. That being said, it does work great at what we're asking it to do.
 
With the Pro1 at my church, I went with the Klark network bridge with a Dante card and a copy of Dante virtual sound card. One ethernet cable to my laptop. I use Pro Tools to record and playback for archive and virtual sound check purposes. Any DAW should be able to use the virtual sound card driver.

Sent from my SCH-I605 2
 
Re: Midas Pro Series Consoles Recording Setup

I have done a lot of hours recording things with Midas desks and the DN9696 and it's my favorite choice when it comes to simplicity and 'idiot proof'. If it works.... The unit is basically a simple dualcore computer with of the shelf motherboard and harddisks, KT fitted it with two PCI - AES50 cards wich also handle the frontpanel leds and knobs and put all of this in a 5U rackmount. While this setup was great in 2007, today it's not. Certainly not for the 14000 Evan mentioned.
The major downside to this device is the use of general harddisks and the recordingsoftware. Every harddisk has a moment where its stops writing stuff due to bad sectors or because its thinking about life as a harddisk and its dead end future. Usually this only takes seconds and then everything is back to normal and you can overcome this sudden hickup in your datastream with buffering (to ram). Sadly the software doesn't do buffering. And then there is the lack of support because the company who manufatured the AES cards and software went bankrupt. KT did buy their technology, but there hasn't been a softwareupdate to address minor or major bugs. I have been told the unit is discontinued and i'm suprised its still on their website....

As for (cheaper) alternatives I like the KT9650 bridge with a laptop. Based on the rest of you equipment you should choose between MADI or Dante. (if you have other madi consoles i'd choose madi) Take a laptop with your favorite program and you can record up to 32(dante) or 64(madi) channels. The Digico UB-MADI is a simple USB 'soundcard', but it's limited to the first 48 channels of the madi-stream. Fit the laptop with the biggest SSD you can afford and you will not have any regrets.
I also used the JoeCo blackbox, but the first times wheren't that succesfull. Due to a difference in madi-protocols the unit would not clock to the DN9650, using the opticalport instead of the coax fixed this. This has been addressed in an update by JoeCo and since then both optical and coax are fine. In my opinion the JoeCo solution lacks in the userinterface department. It has one knob and you do everything with it, setting names or arming/disarming tracks takes ages. It reminds me of the Macbook Wheel

You can also fit a computer with Lynx AES-16e50 cards, at 1000.- a piece they aren't that expensive. Although I haven't used them for recording they are fine for things like external effects in Waves Multirack. If you really want a laptop it's possible to fit the card in a PCIe-thunderbolt box, but then you are limited to MacOSX. I don't have enough handson experience to recommend this solution. The RPM products are nothing more than the above mentioned card with a Magma PCIe-thunderbolt chassis and some ethercons.
 
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Re: Midas Pro Series Consoles Recording Setup

Jelmer de Jong said:
I have done a lot of hours recording things with Midas desks and the DN9696 and it's my favorite choice when it comes to simplicity and 'idiot proof'. If it works.... The unit is basically a simple dualcore computer with of the shelf motherboard and harddisks, KT fitted it with two PCI - AES50 cards wich also handle the frontpanel leds and knobs and put all of this in a 5U rackmount. While this setup was great in 2007, today it's not. Certainly not for the 14000 Evan mentioned.
The major downside to this device is the use of general harddisks and the recordingsoftware. Every harddisk has a moment where its stops writing stuff due to bad sectors or because its thinking about life as a harddisk and its dead end future. Usually this only takes seconds and then everything is back to normal and you can overcome this sudden hickup in your datastream with buffering (to ram). Sadly the software doesn't do buffering. And then there is the lack of support because the company who manufatured the AES cards and software went bankrupt. KT did buy their technology, but there hasn't been a softwareupdate to address minor or major bugs. I have been told the unit is discontinued and i'm suprised its still on their website....

As for (cheaper) alternatives I like the KT9650 bridge with a laptop. Based on the rest of you equipment you should choose between MADI or Dante. (if you have other madi consoles i'd choose madi) Take a laptop with your favorite program and you can record up to 32(dante) or 64(madi) channels. The Digico UB-MADI is a simple USB 'soundcard', but it's limited to the first 48 channels of the madi-stream. Fit the laptop with the biggest SSD you can afford and you will not have any regrets.
I also used the JoeCo blackbox, but the first times wheren't that succesfull. Due to a difference in madi-protocols the unit would not clock to the DN9650, using the opticalport instead of the coax fixed this. This has been addressed in an update by JoeCo and since then both optical and coax are fine. In my opinion the JoeCo solution lacks in the userinterface department. It has one knob and you do everything with it, setting names or arming/disarming tracks takes ages. It reminds me of the Macbook Wheel

You can also fit a computer with Lynx AES-16e50 cards, at 1000.- a piece they aren't that expensive. Although I haven't used them for recording they are fine for things like external effects in Waves Multirack. If you really want a laptop it's possible to fit the card in a PCIe-thunderbolt box, but then you are limited to MacOSX. I don't have enough handson experience to recommend this solution. The RPM products are nothing more than the above mentioned card with a Magma PCIe-thunderbolt chassis and some ethercons.
Click to expand...

Jelmer,

Thanks for the break down. I think I am going to look into the Lynx AES-16e50 cards. I have an apple G5 that Ive started setting up for recording. Its bulky but its going to go in the rack underneath the Pro1
 
Re: Midas Pro Series Consoles Recording Setup

Evan F. Hunter said:
Jelmer,

Thanks for the break down. I think I am going to look into the Lynx AES-16e50 cards. I have an apple G5 that Ive started setting up for recording. Its bulky but its going to go in the rack underneath the Pro1
Click to expand...

Make sure you have the right OS on that G5. To my understanding, the G5 doesn't go further than 10.5.8 because its based on PowerPC. (Wiki). The driverpage of the Lynx card says "10.6 and and up", thats when they switched to Intel processors.
 
Re: Midas Pro Series Consoles Recording Setup

Jelmer de Jong said:
Make sure you have the right OS on that G5. To my understanding, the G5 doesn't go further than 10.5.8 because its based on PowerPC. (Wiki). The driverpage of the Lynx card says "10.6 and and up", thats when they switched to Intel processors.
Click to expand...

Yes it is an older one. I wonder if there is still a solution to use this specific computer? Its a shame really the old processors are so much more stable than the newer intels are. I will likely have to just upgrade to a new Mac.
 
Re: Midas Pro Series Consoles Recording Setup

Evan F. Hunter said:
Yes it is an older one. I wonder if there is still a solution to use this specific computer? Its a shame really the old processors are so much more stable than the newer intels are. I will likely have to just upgrade to a new Mac.
Click to expand...

Well that's a pretty sweeping statement!

I'm reasonably certain that the processor architecture has very little to do with day to day stability (except in a few very specific cases).

Nevertheless, the only way to get multitrack into a machine of that vintage will be to use a DN9650 network bridge to MADI, and then use something like a ProTools HD MADI interface. Or you could get a DL252 and just run it into something with a big bunch of analog inputs.
 
Re: Midas Pro Series Consoles Recording Setup

I've been using a DN9650 Network Bridge with MADI to JoeCo Blackbox Recorder via optical. It's been rock solid. It's possible to name tracks via an external Keyboard.
I initially considered using DN9650 with Dante to laptop, but needed more than 32 channels so that option wasn't viable.
I have been told that Midas are planning an 'imminent' release of a new Dante card for the DN9650 which will provide 64 channels at 48kHz.
Someone from Midas may be able to report on how imminent that release might be.
Cheers,
Andy Craig.
 
andy craig said:
I've been using a DN9650 Network Bridge with MADI to JoeCo Blackbox Recorder via optical. It's been rock solid. It's possible to name tracks via an external Keyboard.
I initially considered using DN9650 with Dante to laptop, but needed more than 32 channels so that option wasn't viable.
I have been told that Midas are planning an 'imminent' release of a new Dante card for the DN9650 which will provide 64 channels at 48kHz.
Someone from Midas may be able to report on how imminent that release might be.
Cheers,
Andy Craig.
Click to expand...

But it will still be limited to 32 into the laptop. I believe that is a Virtual Soundcard limit.


Sent from my iPad HD
 
Rob Spence said:
But it will still be limited to 32 into the laptop. I believe that is a Virtual Soundcard limit.


Sent from my iPad HD
Click to expand...

Weird, we just recorded 64 channels via Dante Sound Card a few weeks ago at a festival :). Had to use two DN9650. Put them both on the network and it still works on one Cat6 into the computer.
 
Re: Midas Pro Series Consoles Recording Setup

Rob Spence said:
But it will still be limited to 32 into the laptop. I believe that is a Virtual Soundcard limit.


Sent from my iPad HD
Click to expand...

Hi Rob,

The 32 channel count is a result of the existing Dante card being unable to utilise the 48kHz sample rate option that the Network Bridge offers.
It stays at 32 channels/96kHz. The yet-to-be released (soon-to-be?) Dante card will be able to access the 48k sample rate option and therefore deliver up to 64 channels.

Cheers,

Andy.
 
Re: Midas Pro Series Consoles Recording Setup

Dear All,

Just an update- The64-channel KT-DANTE64 Network Module, compatible with the KLARKTEKNIK DN9650 and DN9652 Network Bridges, is now shipping!

This allows for:
64 bidirectionalchannels @ 48K
32 bidirectional channels @ 96K


Best,
Chase McKnight
Specialist, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
KLARK TEKNIK
 
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Re: Midas Pro Series Consoles Recording Setup

Hi all,
I've got a Pro1 & have just recently purchased an ex demo TB48 from Jim at RPM Dynamics.
I now have up & running 48 channel bi directional 96khz 24 bit audio between Pro1 & a 2012 i7 MBPro.
I haven't much experience in setting this sort of thing up so downloaded the manuals & did the forum trawl & appear to have cracked it.


Couple of things I've learned;
For stability, the switch on/off order is important due to synch.
Set up an Aggregate Device in Mac audio settings to enable both cards in TB48 to be seen as one device by DAW. I use Presonus Studio One 2 Artist which I got free with another console


if anybody needs any more details of my setup, feel free to message me.
I'm NE England based.
 
Re: Midas Pro Series Consoles Recording Setup

Hi All,

I have used a TB48 from Jim at RPM Dynamics for 2 years now. My setup is a Pro 2 and an iMac. I have been successfully recording 48 input shows with no problem. Took a bit to get the settings right and have had a bit of trouble with hd speed but overall it was a great investment at $2500.

Msg me with questions
 
Hello everyone,

I am new to the multitrack recording domain. So here are my questions:
I have a MIDAS Pro 2C with a KT DN9650 and a CM1 MADI card.
Would I encounter any difficulties when trying to record using Logic Pro X on a MAC? Do you recommend the Tracks Live software over Pro Tools and if yes why? Do I need any other piece of hardware in order to pull it off?

Thank you in advance.
 
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Robert Pantheon said:
Would I encounter any difficulties when trying to record using Logic Pro X on a MAC? Do you recommend the Tracks Live software over Pro Tools and if yes why? Do I need any other piece of hardware in order to pull it off?
Click to expand...

Tracks live over Pro Tools any day of the week if you're just using it for recording/playback. It uses *way* less system resources. You can then hand the files over to someone else to mix, or import it in to your DAW of choice.

I'm assuming you have a madi card for your mac? If so that's all you need.
 
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