Mixing priorities.

[Mike Brown]

I had an odd-ball situation pop up, and am looking for advice on my game plan if something similar ends up happening in the future.

I have waited a few weeks and will keep names/places removed to protect the guilty.

I was on a fly date for a house larger than 1000 seats. Really last minute gig and the house sound guy was about an hour late for soundcheck. This left us with less than an hour before doors to get all the mic stands, mics, monitors, cabling and a complete soundcheck done before doors. Monitors were being run by me at FOH.

Usually I try to listen to the house system and walk the coverage to hear what the house is doing before I start checking mics and getting a mix up, however this time I just ran up to FOH and starting working through the lines to get the monitors and my mix up.

As I started checking things, I noticed everything from the house sounded very phase-y and strange.... the musicians on stage were mentioning their wedges sounded very hollow.

After getting about 3/4 of the way through the lines, the reason why it sounded so odd hit me like a ton of bricks. I looked for the graphic EQ's (in the digital console) for the house and the monitors.... and they were hacked to pieces. No band was left untouched (including 20hz and 20k) and there were swings from +11.5 dB to -6dB from one band to the next.

I muted FOH and flattened all the EQ on the monitors, cleared my monitor mix... and got a basic mix for the stage wedges done before we had to bail out and open doors. Pushing the doors back even farther wasn't an option.

First couple songs were a little rough, but after some really fast working/running out in the audience to hear we got the show sounding good.

My question for the more experienced engineers:

When you get put in a venue with strange system tuning what are your priorities if you are extremely short on time? Most house graphs I have run into are either nicely aligned or need small tweaks to suit my tastes/needs.... what do you do when they are not?

Getting the musicians a good mix on stage always is priority one for me (if I am running MON from FOH), but in a throw and go situation, what is your next problem solving stop?

My mistake was (while not thinking clearly) trying to use channel EQ to fix the house before realizing that the house graph was what was screwing me over. Would you immediately flatten the house graph and pull out the main resonances? Or try to individually undo each band hoping to save a little time?


Thanks for the insight!

 

[Evan Kirkendall]

Re: Mixing priorities.

Carrying my own production, and having the band on ears has certainly made life easier these days. But, when I first started out, step one for me when I walked in to any venue was to flatten any and all EQ. 90% of the "issues" addressed by the house EQ, are normally solved by removing the house EQ. If time is limited, I'll put my "generic" EQ curve in to place and go from there during the first song during the show. For monitors, it's all about notching as needed. It always amazes me when house monitors say "the monitors haven't been this loud and this clear in years!" after I flatten out EQ's and start over.



Evan

 

[Karl Winkler]

Re: Mixing priorities.

Carrying my own production, and having the band on ears has certainly made life easier these days. But, when I first started out, step one for me when I walked in to any venue was to flatten any and all EQ. 90% of the "issues" addressed by the house EQ, are normally solved by removing the house EQ. If time is limited, I'll put my "generic" EQ curve in to place and go from there during the first song during the show. For monitors, it's all about notching as needed. It always amazes me when house monitors say "the monitors haven't been this loud and this clear in years!" after I flatten out EQ's and start over.



Evan

That sums up what I would have written.

 

[Gene Hardage]

Re: Mixing priorities.

Ditto what Evan said. On the lower end of the totem pole I've had to deal with some truly horrific "PA systems" and invariably they were made worse by someone before me who hacked everything to pieces. 1st priority has always been - get the vocal out front - next is kick-snare and everything else. You expect incompetence at the small club level so it must be very disturbing to have to encounter it at the mid and upper level of touring.

 

[Rasmus Rosenberg]

Re: Mixing priorities.

If extremly short of time here my priority,
1.Get the backline up and have some one start to mic it (get help from the local guy and/or the band if necessary)
2.Get the talkback mic up and running. (the less time the more communication is important)
3.Make sure your headphones are working, and you know how to solo/pfl/afl etc
4.Tjeck (with the TBmic) if Left and Right works and sounds the same, Find the house EQ and make sure its working, flat it. Pull out the first two frequents that springs to mind (stands out) about 3db, when talking into the mic (with no Eq).
5. Tjeck the monitor send are the correct (and Pre fader) and that there EQ (Geq) are working.
6. Get the Local guy to drive while you go and ring out the lead wedge/ vocals. Copy it to the others.
7... ups doors... do the rest on headphones...
At show; build your mix from the vocals and slowly sneak the rest up there during the first number.

 

[John Chiara]

Re: Mixing priorities.

That sums up what I would have written.

Not disagreeing but the at one club that I maintain, supply mixers for and setup myself, having local guys come in and flatten the very judicious EQ settings I have on hardware graphs for monitors really screws things up. We do smaller regional stuff now and again and a lot of local rock and hardcore and the monitors are pretty set to go. Funny though at multiband shows if the BE checks the monitors with the band they are always in the ballpark. I think part of the problem is again that lots of guys/gals never get taught what monitors should and can sound like if mildly massaged as opposed to viciously hacked.

 

[Evan Kirkendall]

Re: Mixing priorities.

Not disagreeing but the at one club that I maintain, supply mixers for and setup myself, having local guys come in and flatten the very judicious EQ settings I have on hardware graphs for monitors really screws things up. We do smaller regional stuff now and again and a lot of local rock and hardcore and the monitors are pretty set to go. Funny though at multiband shows if the BE checks the monitors with the band they are always in the ballpark. I think part of the problem is again that lots of guys/gals never get taught what monitors should and can sound like if mildly massaged as opposed to viciously hacked.

Any EQ you want saved should be in the DSP as a stock preset. The graphs should always be flat for BE's when they walk in.



Evan

 

[brian maddox]

Re: Mixing priorities.

Any EQ you want saved should be in the DSP as a stock preset. The graphs should always be flat for BE's when they walk in.



Evan

ah, Evan is young isn't he.

seriously, we used to have a stock 'curve' on our graphs for our wedges. This was Pre DSP days. it wasn't a hack job, though. just a few 3 dB cuts at the wedge's hot spots. some BEs got what we were doing and used that as a starting point. others flattened and started over. the latter were usually at it a lot longer as a result.

now, i do agree with mr. Kirkendall. in these days of cheap DSP, there is no reason for anyone to not have any 'necessary' curve already preset and then just hand the BE a flat graph for tweaking.

 

[John Chiara]

Re: Mixing priorities.

To clear it up. This is a small local club with the same FOH guy 98% of the time and there is no DSP, just graphs and passive wedges. Usual setup is in the hour before showtime.

 

[Eric Cagle]

Re: Mixing priorities.

Mike, being in the hot seat with a severe time crunch I think you did very well. Good catch on the board output EQ's being whacko. You know "of course" this had to be on the show where you had the least amount of time to work in order to properly exponentially magnify the issue. I've been there.

I like the list that Rasmus made as a good starting point.

I will add that I always carry a reference CD or Ipod with me if I am working on somebody else's rig. I know what "it" is supposed to sound like. The first thing I do, before checking any input, is run the Ipod Channel strip flat through the mains to make shure the system is voiced correctly. It takes less than a minute to figure out if the system is workable, needs a little tweeking, or if we have major problems. This will tell you very quickly what the rig is going to do in its current state of tune.

I also will usually try out the monitors the way they are handed to me by the house engineer. Nothing has to be "within 1/2 db of the way I would have done it" but absolutely know this: If it is going to take ANY and I repeat ANY tweeking I have found what Evan said to be true. It is much much faster and better to immediately flatten the EQ and start from scratch. In a time crunch you are looking for volume and lack of feedback. Run up the mic gain, check for feedback and volume, notch as needed, run up the EQ or board output gain a little, check for feedback, notch if needed, put it back to the correct level, move on to the next mic. Less is more.

 

[Kip Conner]

Re: Mixing priorities.

I also carry my own FOH rig which really helps me tremendously. You mention that the console was digital- when I do a fly date I try to get a copy of the house file so I can start working my show into that file and load.

Smaart is my best friend on the road. If I only had 10 minutes I can Measure the house and at least one of the mixes, then copy/paste the eq as necessary. Once I have know the room us tuned a certain way I can usually fly through the inputs and can predict within a strong reason the eq curves of just about everything. I don't have to eq toms, electric guitars, only a HPF on the overheads, vocals get the same eq treatment.

If the house engineer is late- than I have no issue letting the venue mgmt know at first indication that we might have to hold doors a little bit. I'll let them know that I don't want to and I will work extra fast to try ti prevent it, but it might happen.

 

[Jeff Babcock]

Re: Mixing priorities.

- fly date for a house larger than 1000 seats.
- house sound guy was about an hour late for soundcheck
- Monitors were being run by me at FOH.
- graphic EQ's (in the digital console) were hacked to pieces. swings from +11.5 dB to -6dB from one band to the next.

What you did seems reasonable. First thing I always do is play some reference material through the rig (both house and mons). If it's not within the ballpark of being workable, I immediately flatten and start over. I have made a habit of always checking master and bus eq's and FX on digital consoles, many times I find less than desirable things there (a recent one had an LPF at 8K and heavy compression (like 10db at reasonable levels) across the L/R bus.)

Try to make it your habit to do these things before you start checking lines.

And BTW, given that the house guy was so late, it is perfectly excusable to push hard for the doors to be delayed. Sometimes it just isn't possible, but having to compromise your act's performance because the dude showed up late is certainly something worth complaining to the promoter about. Sometimes you've just gotta run and gun though.... Make sure to make a note about this venue for future reference.