Anybody have experience with the L or R bus dropping about -3 db or more below the other on an ML3000? At the last gig before tonight I noticed a slight differentiation between the L and R bus but not enough to worry about. Then after soundcheck today I began noticing a huge difference of as much as 6db difference. I tried using different channels as well as unplugging my L/R inserts but I'm confident that its in the console. I finally had to adjust the gains on my EQ to level it up enough to get through the show....
ML3000 L/R Bus
- Thread starter Brandon Blakeney
- Start date
Silas Pradetto
Graduate Student
Re: ML3000 L/R Bus
Sounds like one of the cables running from console to EQ lost one of the conductors making it balanced. If it's 1/4" TRS this is no surprise, they always do that. If XLR, open them up and see if all the solders are OK. If it's happening internally to the console, then it's possibly a bad solder on the XLR outputs or somewhere close.
Sounds like one of the cables running from console to EQ lost one of the conductors making it balanced. If it's 1/4" TRS this is no surprise, they always do that. If XLR, open them up and see if all the solders are OK. If it's happening internally to the console, then it's possibly a bad solder on the XLR outputs or somewhere close.
Re: ML3000 L/R Bus
We just got the console out a little while ago, and of course, now its working fine... I'm going to run audio through it for a few hours to allow for it to get a little warm. I took the back cover off to look for signs of corrosion, loose ribbon cables, etc... and found none. The only thing I did do was calibrate the left analog VU meter which was ever so slightly out of calibration. I ran a 1KHZ tone through a mono channel and L/R were dead even on the LED meters.
The Left side WAS still lower yesterday even when the EQ's were removed from the L/R inserts......Can a bad snake return load one of these outputs down enough to lower the output by as much as 6dB ??
We just got the console out a little while ago, and of course, now its working fine... I'm going to run audio through it for a few hours to allow for it to get a little warm. I took the back cover off to look for signs of corrosion, loose ribbon cables, etc... and found none. The only thing I did do was calibrate the left analog VU meter which was ever so slightly out of calibration. I ran a 1KHZ tone through a mono channel and L/R were dead even on the LED meters.
The Left side WAS still lower yesterday even when the EQ's were removed from the L/R inserts......Can a bad snake return load one of these outputs down enough to lower the output by as much as 6dB ??
Re: ML3000 L/R Bus
You could probably short the output to ground and not affect the meters as the output is usually buffered after the meter pickup point. This is a general assumption as I have no experience with this console.
I have in one case experienced that someone wrongfully connected a signal source to the output of a mixer, and the mixer's meter actually showed the level of the signal being fed into the console output - but I'd consider this to be an exception until someone in the know corrects me.
You could probably short the output to ground and not affect the meters as the output is usually buffered after the meter pickup point. This is a general assumption as I have no experience with this console.
I have in one case experienced that someone wrongfully connected a signal source to the output of a mixer, and the mixer's meter actually showed the level of the signal being fed into the console output - but I'd consider this to be an exception until someone in the know corrects me.
A bad snake line could. Losing one leg is 6dB.
FWIW, AFAIK, most console internal gain stages are class a, so will heat up as much whether you run audio through them or not.
FWIW, AFAIK, most console internal gain stages are class a, so will heat up as much whether you run audio through them or not.
Re: ML3000 L/R Bus
I tried hooking the same snake return into the console and wiring it into the same amp rack but could not get the left channel to drop again. We even rolled out the snake. I have no idea.....I guess we will try using it again and see what happens. Maybe just a random occurrence caused by condensation? poor grounding?
I tried hooking the same snake return into the console and wiring it into the same amp rack but could not get the left channel to drop again. We even rolled out the snake. I have no idea.....I guess we will try using it again and see what happens. Maybe just a random occurrence caused by condensation? poor grounding?
Re: ML3000 L/R Bus
We have the same thing on the left output of our ML5000 at church. I am assuming it is a cable issue but the weird thing is that when I unplug the (XLR) cable from the "L" output and plug it back in the level is magically back up to match the "R" output. Then at some point it goes back to being 6db down. I was just figuring it was some kind of intermittent connection or cable problem and losing one leg of the balanced line cut it 6db. Does that make sense though that it would show up in the meter for the desk's output? Should I be looking inside the desk?
Thanks,
Loren Jones
We have the same thing on the left output of our ML5000 at church. I am assuming it is a cable issue but the weird thing is that when I unplug the (XLR) cable from the "L" output and plug it back in the level is magically back up to match the "R" output. Then at some point it goes back to being 6db down. I was just figuring it was some kind of intermittent connection or cable problem and losing one leg of the balanced line cut it 6db. Does that make sense though that it would show up in the meter for the desk's output? Should I be looking inside the desk?
Thanks,
Loren Jones
Re: ML3000 L/R Bus
I also tried shunting the pins on the xlr but could not get the level to drop any........this is puzzling......I once had a similar problem in a Mackie SR40.8 and it turned out to be a ribbon cable......I've never heard of any problems of this nature with the ML consoles other than the previous poster and myself...anyone else had similar problems?
I also tried shunting the pins on the xlr but could not get the level to drop any........this is puzzling......I once had a similar problem in a Mackie SR40.8 and it turned out to be a ribbon cable......I've never heard of any problems of this nature with the ML consoles other than the previous poster and myself...anyone else had similar problems?
Re: ML3000 L/R Bus
On our ml5000 the one output is 6db down everytime you power the desk on. If I simply disconnect and reconnect the xlr cable from that output the problem is fixed and stays fixed until the desk is turned off. Then next time it is powered on same problem again. I guess it's time to call Allen and Heath.
On our ml5000 the one output is 6db down everytime you power the desk on. If I simply disconnect and reconnect the xlr cable from that output the problem is fixed and stays fixed until the desk is turned off. Then next time it is powered on same problem again. I guess it's time to call Allen and Heath.
Re: ML3000 L/R Bus
Used the console again today, but switched to different snake returns and had no issues with the L/R busses dropping 6dB. We have an EWI 32 channel splitter on a spool........guess its been run over one too many times. May be time to buy an enormous splitter snake that costs more than the consoles it will be connected to
. However it was about time anyway because 32 ch. was barely cutting it for many of the larger acts that we provide for. Any suggestions on brand/model of large splitter snakes???
Used the console again today, but switched to different snake returns and had no issues with the L/R busses dropping 6dB. We have an EWI 32 channel splitter on a spool........guess its been run over one too many times. May be time to buy an enormous splitter snake that costs more than the consoles it will be connected to
. However it was about time anyway because 32 ch. was barely cutting it for many of the larger acts that we provide for. Any suggestions on brand/model of large splitter snakes???Re: ML3000 L/R Bus
Sounds like a bad solder joint on the XLR output connector to me - or a fault in the cable.
Sounds like a bad solder joint on the XLR output connector to me - or a fault in the cable.
Re: ML3000 L/R Bus
Haven't had time to troubleshoot it unfortunately. But first step will be just trying a different snake return line before we start looking inside the console.
Haven't had time to troubleshoot it unfortunately. But first step will be just trying a different snake return line before we start looking inside the console.
Re: ML3000 L/R Bus
First I'd suggest you search the now-merged PSW FUD/SMF forums as this mature technology hasn't changed in 8 years....
That said, we currently own snakes/splitters built by RamTech and Rapco/Horizon Custom shop. Both build good products but "you get what you pay for." Keeping that in mind almost any established fabricator can build you a good snake system... CBI, Radial, Whirlwind.
We went from transformer-isolated splitters to passive WYE splits as we supply all electrical service to our equipment and good transformers can easily add $100/channel. We kept our transformer splitters, though, and they do get used when we need isolated splits or only need 40 channels. Our big splitters are RamTech 54 channel units. I highly recommend RamTech for quality and value, a combination that is hard to beat.
Have fun, good luck.
Tim Mc
First I'd suggest you search the now-merged PSW FUD/SMF forums as this mature technology hasn't changed in 8 years....
That said, we currently own snakes/splitters built by RamTech and Rapco/Horizon Custom shop. Both build good products but "you get what you pay for." Keeping that in mind almost any established fabricator can build you a good snake system... CBI, Radial, Whirlwind.
We went from transformer-isolated splitters to passive WYE splits as we supply all electrical service to our equipment and good transformers can easily add $100/channel. We kept our transformer splitters, though, and they do get used when we need isolated splits or only need 40 channels. Our big splitters are RamTech 54 channel units. I highly recommend RamTech for quality and value, a combination that is hard to beat.
Have fun, good luck.
Tim Mc
Re: ML3000 L/R Bus
They merged? Glad to hear it, but I thought that was impossible.
They merged? Glad to hear it, but I thought that was impossible.
Re: ML3000 L/R Bus
The impossible just takes a little longer. Everything but the old Compuserve system is now part of the current PSW. The old Compuserve archive is still available at the old same place®.
Mac
The impossible just takes a little longer. Everything but the old Compuserve system is now part of the current PSW. The old Compuserve archive is still available at the old same place®.
Mac