More StudioLive surprises. :(

B

Brian jojade

Senior
Jan 15, 2011
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Wausau, WI
www.happymacshop.com
Well, out on the road with my StudioLive this weekend. I was excited to be able to use the iPad app to remote control the system. Understanding the shortcomings of the app, I'm prepared to get to work.

I get things all set up, and working, and all is well. Then the iPad went to sleep and every time I tried to connect to the board, it would drop into demo mode. Odd, I thought. Quit the app, and re opened. Same problem. Rebooted the iPad, same problem. O.K, fine, I'll reboot the mac connected to the board. WOAH, don't do that. When you reboot the computer, the board will end up muting several times, even if you quit the app first!! Somehow rebooting the machine with firewire attached sends signals to the board that confuse it. It's only 2-3 seconds, but in the reboot process, it happened 5-6 times!!!

Don't get me wrong, there are things about this board I love, but it seems as though you really have to walk on eggshells when working with it.

After rebooting, the iPad app was working just fine. A test did show that simply restarting the computer will produce these problems. Disconnecting the firewire cable will also sometimes cause the board to mute for a moment, but that's better than muting 5-6 times. Unplug the firewire cable before rebooting your machine.
 
Re: More StudioLive surprises. :(

I used the SL24 and the iPad app for the first time Saturday, and I also experienced some problems. In the shop I was able to connect very easily. At the gig, I fell into "demo" mode, as you described, and I had to "kill" the app on the iPad and restart to get a connection. Also whenever I would try to "locate" the faders it would put one of the overhead mics much higher than the other, I would have to reset them after the "locate". The overheads channels were linked, this may have something to do with the problem.

Also 2 times when I tried to go to the Aux mixer I was shown the wrong mix. I had to switch back and forth to another mix to get the correct display.

The mixer itself worked fine, but the iPad app is really just a beta test.


BTW, I was using a PC with window XP
 
Re: More StudioLive surprises. :(

Today I went back to the shop to try to recreate the problems that Brian and I had.

I was not able to recreate the audio drop outs that Brian mentioned. I synced the laptop to the SL24, then I quit the program, and restarted the PC. The SL 24 cruised along passing audio the whole time. I'm not saying that it didn't happen to Brian, but I couldn't reproduce it.*

I was able to easily recreate 2 problems I experienced at my show.
1) I synced the PC to the SL24, then started the iPad app. I saw the connect button for the mixer (with the correct ip address for the laptop). I hit connect, but I was put into demo mode, with no connection to the mixer.

I had to "kill" the iPad app and restart it to get a good connection. This happened the very first time I tried to sync today, and 2 more times after that.

2) If I turn a fader all the way down in the iPad app, I cannot "properly" locate the fader position when I return to the mixer. I press the locate button, and pull the fader down (to the correct position), but the locate function on the mixer thinks I need to turn it down more. It is physically impossible to pull the fader any farther down. Fortunately ignoring the incorrect reading solves the problem, so this is a minor issue.

One last complaint I have is that I can't see gain reduction in the SL app. Maybe that feature exists, and I missed it.

*I also tried pulling the firewire cable while the program was synced to the mixer. Again, the mixer cruised along, as if I hadn't done a thing.
 
Re: More StudioLive surprises. :(

The SL 16 and SL 24 are different boards, so maybe there are some differences. I've had other audio drop out issues with my board in the past, although not with a computer connected. A buddy of mine has one of these too, and he's starting to get frustrated with his as well. Things that just don't work as they should. Problems that can't be reproduced back in the shop either.

The things I feared might happen with an economical digital board unfortunately are coming true for me. It works most of the time, but I have a hard time relying on it for anything mission critical at this time. I can't justify a much higher end board for the type of shows I use this for, so I'll probably be bringing the analog board more often. My Presonus has caused some sort of issue at least 25% of the time I brought it out. At least this time, the issue was prior to anyone arriving so it was a non issue. Had it happened during the awards ceremony, I'd have looked pretty bad. Compare that to the reliability I've had with analog boards. I've yet to have a complete melt down of a board that killed everything. I did, back with a 1982 vintage Biamp mixer have one catch on fire mid show, but the fire went out and I only lost a couple channels. :)
 
Re: More StudioLive surprises. :(

Brian, Yeah I can only reproduce some of the problems I had in the shop.

We were just having a demo of the board, and we may or may not buy one.
 
Re: More StudioLive surprises. :(

Brian jojade said:
The SL 16 and SL 24 are different boards, so maybe there are some differences. I've had other audio drop out issues with my board in the past, although not with a computer connected. A buddy of mine has one of these too, and he's starting to get frustrated with his as well. Things that just don't work as they should. Problems that can't be reproduced back in the shop either.

The things I feared might happen with an economical digital board unfortunately are coming true for me. It works most of the time, but I have a hard time relying on it for anything mission critical at this time. I can't justify a much higher end board for the type of shows I use this for, so I'll probably be bringing the analog board more often. My Presonus has caused some sort of issue at least 25% of the time I brought it out. At least this time, the issue was prior to anyone arriving so it was a non issue. Had it happened during the awards ceremony, I'd have looked pretty bad. Compare that to the reliability I've had with analog boards. I've yet to have a complete melt down of a board that killed everything. I did, back with a 1982 vintage Biamp mixer have one catch on fire mid show, but the fire went out and I only lost a couple channels. :)
Click to expand...

A small part of me wants to gloat, but the rest of me says 'that sucks.'

I'd come late to the digital console party and was skeptical about creating a single point of failure. I free lanced a couple of shows on a provided TT24. The desk was easy to use, the PC software worked but the desk quickly developed a bi-polar personality... shit quit working, then would work. That didn't exactly leave a warm, fuzzy feeling. About that time I bought an original, silver-face 01v with a MY4DA card for $450 on ebay. Played with it in the shop, it sat for 6 months or so before it did a gig. I took the manual and a backup analog mixer; used the former but not the latter. Haven't looked back. We'd been a Yamaha analog shop and until a couple weeks ago, were 100% Yamaha digital.

Serious console abuse, Exhibit "oh shit"... last century, I was working as a hand on local promoter's Jefferson Starship/Outfield show. Sound On Stage with Morpheus Lights (Pan Command v1). Monitor desk was a Gamble, and I asked the SOS tech about it. He invited me to follow him up the truck ramp to the desk. About that time the downstage truss was going up... and came down. Temporary outdoor stage in a baseball stadium, scaffolding for structure sl/sr. The downstage left head block across the scaff frames wasn't correctly anchored, and when pulled at a slight angle as the truss neared trim, it came off. The head block swung down and landed on the Gamble. IIRC they lost 6 input and 2 output strips but it otherwise functioned. Had we been up that ramp a little quicker, they'd have lost us.

- topic swerve This was the crystallizing moment about rigging for me. It's about killing people or not killing people. /topic swerve

I hope there's a firmware fix for Presonus issues. Other than the silly AC88 (?) dynamics unit, they've made some unique products that have had better maiden voyages than the SL.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
 
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Re: More StudioLive surprises. :(

Brian jojade said:
The things I feared might happen with an economical digital board unfortunately are coming true for me. It works most of the time, but I have a hard time relying on it for anything mission critical at this time. I can't justify a much higher end board for the type of shows I use this for, so I'll probably be bringing the analog board more often. My Presonus has caused some sort of issue at least 25% of the time I brought it out. At least this time, the issue was prior to anyone arriving so it was a non issue. Had it happened during the awards ceremony, I'd have looked pretty bad. Compare that to the reliability I've had with analog boards. I've yet to have a complete melt down of a board that killed everything.
Click to expand...
I've yet to have a melt down of any kind on my Yamaha digital boards.

I've been saying it since they came out, the Presonus boards are toys.
 
Re: More StudioLive surprises. :(

Sounds to me like the Ipad is also a toy.

makes dropping 2-3K for this type of control asinine
 
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Re: More StudioLive surprises. :(

Justice C. Bigler said:
I've yet to have a melt down of any kind on my Yamaha digital boards.

I've been saying it since they came out, the Presonus boards are toys.
Click to expand...

I am not sure about toy, I have been thinking it is like a Civic, a basic fundamental car that will certainly get you where you want to go. But a Civic also comes with the possibility of a lot of options that make it appear to be more of a sports car than it really is. With a Civic, the performance doesn't always match the appearance.

I am starting to feel the same way about the Presonus, the performance doesn't always match the appearance.
 
Re: More StudioLive surprises. :(

Jay Barracato said:
I am not sure about toy, I have been thinking it is like a Civic, a basic fundamental car that will certainly get you where you want to go. But a Civic also comes with the possibility of a lot of options that make it appear to be more of a sports car than it really is. With a Civic, the performance doesn't always match the appearance.
Click to expand...
Okay, I think that's an apt description also. To take it one step further, they are selling a compact car to a market that really needs a small or mid sized pick up.
 
Re: More StudioLive surprises. :(

This could be caused by the difference in firewire from MAC vs PC. I know from past experiences, PC firewire generally does not provided power, while firewire on MAC does. Can anyone with a MAC attempt to recreate Brian's original issue?
 
Re: More StudioLive surprises. :(

Eric Simna said:
This could be caused by the difference in firewire from MAC vs PC. I know from past experiences, PC firewire generally does not provided power, while firewire on MAC does. Can anyone with a MAC attempt to recreate Brian's original issue?
Click to expand...

This is incorrect; 6-pin Firewire 400, by spec, provides power, and 4-pin FW 400, by spec, does not.

In the case of the OP, any power supplied by the Firewire bus would be ignored by the console, as it has it's own power.
 
Re: More StudioLive surprises. :(

Silas Pradetto said:
This is incorrect; 6-pin Firewire 400, by spec, provides power, and 4-pin FW 400, by spec, does not.

In the case of the OP, any power supplied by the Firewire bus would be ignored by the console, as it has it's own power.
Click to expand...

Well I for one was using a non-powered 4 pin firewire port, as commonly found on PC laptops. I ASSume that Brian was using a powered 6 pin firewire port, as commonly found on mac laptops. The mixer should ignore this bus power. I don't have access to the mixer to test with mac.
 
Re: More StudioLive surprises. :(

Given that Presonus has an extensive list of which firewire chipsets they think won't work with their equipment and that all of the PC wirewire cards carried by my local bestbuy (use that as a measure of availability) are on the "don't work" list, I would look to that for the problem before I was worrying about which flavor of firewire 400 it was.

I did not try to correlate the list according to whether the firewire was powered or not.
 
Re: More StudioLive surprises. :(

Everything I've read says the StudioLive works far better with a Mac than it does with a PC. Still, the fact that it's SO picky says a lot about the ruggedness of the software design.

In a studio environment, it would be less of a deal if unplugging the computer caused a hiccup. Obviously, if you're recording through the interface, you'd not be unplugging the machine at that time. If it does hiccup, you would just have to do a re-take. Maybe they should have called this a 'studio 16' not 'studioLive 16'

However, in a studio environment, I've noticed that this is NOT a very quiet board. With the mains set to unity, it's quite noisy in comparison to my other equipment. Not a problem when running live, but for recording, the noise floor is way higher than I'd want. Haven't compared the noise on the firewire port to know if that's better, but still, the noise level in the studio would be too high for my tastes. My GL2400's are much better in this regard, and they aren't that great either.
 
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