Most Audio engineers trying to mix
- Thread starter Mike Brown
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Re: Most Audio engineers trying to mix
Sometimes you just have to stop and let the "instrument" do its thing.
It is NOT a cake that you have to keep mixing----
YEAH-they don't know when to STOP MIXING!
Sometimes you just have to stop and let the "instrument" do its thing.
It is NOT a cake that you have to keep mixing----
Re: Most Audio engineers trying to mix
This is probably my number one NOOB meter.... Unless your band sucks there is no reason to be in a constant state of tweak. It just shows you don't know what you're going for and you don't know how to get there...
This is probably my number one NOOB meter.... Unless your band sucks there is no reason to be in a constant state of tweak. It just shows you don't know what you're going for and you don't know how to get there...
Re: Most Audio engineers trying to mix
I often tell people that if you keep on "mixing" you will just dig a hole big enough to throw you, the band and the PA in.
Sometimes you have to STOP digging.
Like trying to whack away at and eq to make the PA sound better
I often tell people that if you keep on "mixing" you will just dig a hole big enough to throw you, the band and the PA in.
Sometimes you have to STOP digging.
Like trying to whack away at and eq to make the PA sound better
Re: Most Audio engineers trying to mix
Not necessarily in all cases. If the band is not balanced on stage from song to song or even more, my job gets harder if I want consistent production quality. I mix a modern country band where the singer doesn't have a low range or a lot of resonance in his voice. I ride him pretty constantly. Lead guitar has 5 instruments and literally hundreds of presets which vary wildly...I also ride him all the time. I change delay and drum and vocal verb settings per song. Backups need to be ducked as stage volume is loud.
I do however, have a very clear reference that I am working toward do nothing gets out of control. Obviously it needs to be discerning, but I find that my 'movements' make the mix more exciting and interesting from minute to minute. It's all about clarity, balance and getting the message across to first time listeners. Not for everyone.
Not necessarily in all cases. If the band is not balanced on stage from song to song or even more, my job gets harder if I want consistent production quality. I mix a modern country band where the singer doesn't have a low range or a lot of resonance in his voice. I ride him pretty constantly. Lead guitar has 5 instruments and literally hundreds of presets which vary wildly...I also ride him all the time. I change delay and drum and vocal verb settings per song. Backups need to be ducked as stage volume is loud.
I do however, have a very clear reference that I am working toward do nothing gets out of control. Obviously it needs to be discerning, but I find that my 'movements' make the mix more exciting and interesting from minute to minute. It's all about clarity, balance and getting the message across to first time listeners. Not for everyone.
Re: Most Audio engineers trying to mix
Ideally it all stabilizes... that's when I find myself getting bored, because there are no more problems to fix. Usually I like soundcheck more than the show.
Varies from genre to genre, though. Last weekend I was mixing a Broadway show tunes revue, and there was a lot of fader riding and following the script. No time to do much else!
Ideally it all stabilizes... that's when I find myself getting bored, because there are no more problems to fix. Usually I like soundcheck more than the show.
Varies from genre to genre, though. Last weekend I was mixing a Broadway show tunes revue, and there was a lot of fader riding and following the script. No time to do much else!
Re: Most Audio engineers trying to mix
And i agree with you completely. I overly simplified using the disclaimer 'unless your band sucks', but those kinds of issues were exactly what i was referring to.
When i first started mixing i found myself doing a lot of work to get less than satisfying results. But the more i did it the better i got at it until finally i got a job at a sound company with real gear and within just a few months i was getting truly stellar results. So i thought i had really come into my own with my skill set. in short, i thought i was a pretty great sound engineer.
But then i found myself mixing a local cover band one new year's eve because some of the members of the band happened to work in our sound company's install division. Suddenly i found myself back to chasing my tail all night trying to get it all to come together like it had for all the other acts i had mixed the previous year. It took me a while to get it, but i finally realized what had happened. Sure, i had gotten better in my skill set. But i had also moved from mixing local bands to mixing national acts. And national acts have talent and skills and know how to play well together. No wonder my results got so much better.
What i was really trying to illustrate was the guys i've seen that are all over the console all night responding to problems that don't exist. i used to see it all the time when i was a system tech watching the BE for a national act dig himself a hole.
Of course you also have the young guys now who spend the entire set buried in plugin menus while completely missing that the lead singer has changed or the guitarist is playing a [completely silent] mandolin on this song. but i digress....
And i agree with you completely. I overly simplified using the disclaimer 'unless your band sucks', but those kinds of issues were exactly what i was referring to.
When i first started mixing i found myself doing a lot of work to get less than satisfying results. But the more i did it the better i got at it until finally i got a job at a sound company with real gear and within just a few months i was getting truly stellar results. So i thought i had really come into my own with my skill set. in short, i thought i was a pretty great sound engineer.
But then i found myself mixing a local cover band one new year's eve because some of the members of the band happened to work in our sound company's install division. Suddenly i found myself back to chasing my tail all night trying to get it all to come together like it had for all the other acts i had mixed the previous year. It took me a while to get it, but i finally realized what had happened. Sure, i had gotten better in my skill set. But i had also moved from mixing local bands to mixing national acts. And national acts have talent and skills and know how to play well together. No wonder my results got so much better.
What i was really trying to illustrate was the guys i've seen that are all over the console all night responding to problems that don't exist. i used to see it all the time when i was a system tech watching the BE for a national act dig himself a hole.
Of course you also have the young guys now who spend the entire set buried in plugin menus while completely missing that the lead singer has changed or the guitarist is playing a [completely silent] mandolin on this song. but i digress....
Re: Most Audio engineers trying to mix
This. Right. Here.
Yeah, I'm a hot-shot mixerboi when the band is good, and a frustrated bar band wanna be when they aren't. Having nice tools helps - one of the things I use a lot on inexperienced singers/rappers is the C4 or C6 compressor, some of the Renaissance stuff - many of the plugs that help recording folks "help the talent" have a place in the live kit. I went through this with a local support act a couple weeks ago. They had a 25 minute slot and I spent half that time dialing in plugs, but the final results were the last 4 songs that sounded much better than they'd been heard live, before (band wife comment). That makes it worth the effort. I don't shortchange the mix while I work on these things - that's why it took half of their set to dial in - but in the end I have to listen to the mix, too, and I want to listen to a good mix and not a crappy one. That damn sound guy needs to fix that.... oh, wait, I AM the damn sound guy!
I've watched BEs totally hose themselves in a variety of ways. My favorite is the guy that makes system EQ decisions while playing some gawd-awful tune at earsplitting levels while discretely consulting his iPhone. G.R.E. Gain Reduction thru Equalization. I let them do this until I'm no longer amused and then ask "what are you trying to find?" Sometimes I'll save whatever they've done and offer to make "a few changes" for them (usually resetting the EQ to flat). They can accept or modify what I do, or they can recall their previous settings and suffer some more while I go to catering. Fewer of these guys today, but rife a couple years ago. The kind you mention, Brian, are much more common today. I presume they got their gig because they kept a bag packed, a current passport, and could leave RFN when they get called. I can only assume they keep their gigs because their bosses are on stage with IEMs.
It's a really good day at the office when the band is great, the mixerperson has ears and chops and the audience is ready for a good time. That's when MUSIC comes out of the PA, not just "sound."
This. Right. Here.
Yeah, I'm a hot-shot mixerboi when the band is good, and a frustrated bar band wanna be when they aren't. Having nice tools helps - one of the things I use a lot on inexperienced singers/rappers is the C4 or C6 compressor, some of the Renaissance stuff - many of the plugs that help recording folks "help the talent" have a place in the live kit. I went through this with a local support act a couple weeks ago. They had a 25 minute slot and I spent half that time dialing in plugs, but the final results were the last 4 songs that sounded much better than they'd been heard live, before (band wife comment). That makes it worth the effort. I don't shortchange the mix while I work on these things - that's why it took half of their set to dial in - but in the end I have to listen to the mix, too, and I want to listen to a good mix and not a crappy one. That damn sound guy needs to fix that.... oh, wait, I AM the damn sound guy!
I've watched BEs totally hose themselves in a variety of ways. My favorite is the guy that makes system EQ decisions while playing some gawd-awful tune at earsplitting levels while discretely consulting his iPhone. G.R.E. Gain Reduction thru Equalization. I let them do this until I'm no longer amused and then ask "what are you trying to find?" Sometimes I'll save whatever they've done and offer to make "a few changes" for them (usually resetting the EQ to flat). They can accept or modify what I do, or they can recall their previous settings and suffer some more while I go to catering. Fewer of these guys today, but rife a couple years ago. The kind you mention, Brian, are much more common today. I presume they got their gig because they kept a bag packed, a current passport, and could leave RFN when they get called. I can only assume they keep their gigs because their bosses are on stage with IEMs.
It's a really good day at the office when the band is great, the mixerperson has ears and chops and the audience is ready for a good time. That's when MUSIC comes out of the PA, not just "sound."
Re: Most Audio engineers trying to mix
Hear hear. I can make a good band sound good and a great band sound great, but I'm not one of the guys who's one step ahead and can make the good band sound great and the great band sound like nothing you've heard before. I know a few of those folks and they have my respect, creative people with great ears and passion to chase the details after getting off the bus for the third straight month. Kudos to them.
Hear hear. I can make a good band sound good and a great band sound great, but I'm not one of the guys who's one step ahead and can make the good band sound great and the great band sound like nothing you've heard before. I know a few of those folks and they have my respect, creative people with great ears and passion to chase the details after getting off the bus for the third straight month. Kudos to them.
Re: Most Audio engineers trying to mix
My solution for both shitty bands and shitty engineers is another beer.
Evan
My solution for both shitty bands and shitty engineers is another beer.
Evan
Re: Most Audio engineers trying to mix
It still amuses me that people soundcheck the kickdrum for 15 minutes and the lead vocal for 15 seconds.
And that a eq on the master bus is the solution to all problems.
I sincerely believe that more people should do gigs without a master eq and soundcheck the band while their'e playing together.
It still amuses me that people soundcheck the kickdrum for 15 minutes and the lead vocal for 15 seconds.
And that a eq on the master bus is the solution to all problems.
I sincerely believe that more people should do gigs without a master eq and soundcheck the band while their'e playing together.
Re: Most Audio engineers trying to mix
For you, for the band or for the engineer?
Re: Most Audio engineers trying to mix
There can only be so much "making the mix better" then you reach the "making the mix worse" point. The degree of development of ones skill set determines where that point is and how fast you get there. Realizing you are there seems to be the skill that is most lacking with inexperienced engineers, except as mentioned above when someone does not know how to get there at all.
There can only be so much "making the mix better" then you reach the "making the mix worse" point. The degree of development of ones skill set determines where that point is and how fast you get there. Realizing you are there seems to be the skill that is most lacking with inexperienced engineers, except as mentioned above when someone does not know how to get there at all.