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New DIY Mid High (90deg) - AKA PM90
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<blockquote data-quote="Simon Coffin" data-source="post: 133835" data-attributes="member: 388"><p>Re: New DIY Mid High</p><p></p><p>Hey Peter,</p><p></p><p>Being ever the practical thinker, I've been wondering how to organize your cabinet, a matching sub and all required amplification and DSP into a flexible, efficient and compact package. It seems to me that DIY solutions, while often having some truly brilliant engineering and skillful tuning, are single products that still need to be adapted to play well with other cabinets or DSPs. Their integration is left as an exercise for the user, leading to very mixed results and generally poor acceptance. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there is a gap in current speaker products between the speakers-on-sticks and small platform line arrays. This is the niche previously filled with classic hi-Q trap boxes that nobody is making anymore. Your cabinet sits right in this niche. Packaging the cabinet with matching sub(s) and amps would take it out of the 'just another diy box' into a system that I suspect would get a lot more attention and respect. At least that's the theory. There have been a few systems published in the past, Art Welter's comes to mind, but I can't think of one that was developed collaboratively and that was presented as a complete system, amps, subs, tunings and all. </p><p></p><p>So with that being said, here are my thoughts in no particular order:</p><p></p><p>Mid/High: As long as the cabinet stays tri-amped, the amp rack is going to be more expensive than is realistic for most weekend warriors. While it may give the cabinet a slight sound improvement, the third amp starts to push the system's costs into an uncomfortable area. A biamped cabinet, assuming the power needs are not horrendous keeps the total costs down, especially if a 4 channel amp could be used to drive two tops. A quick survey indicates there are quite a few 4 channel amps that could be used.</p><p></p><p>Subs: You mentioned you have an existing design for a double 18. If that is the case, I'd recommend well thought out stacking feet so the subs can be securely stacked on top of each other, or a mid high on a sub. This provides setup flexibility. Dolly boards that double as grill protection are also a good idea.</p><p></p><p>Flying hardware: I still think the Seeburg K24 is the role model for cabinets in this size range, allowing them to be flown one under the other at the optimal angle with built in hardware. You mentioned earlier that the horn was not optimal for arraying. Assuming the cabinets are arrayed one under the other, do you still think that would be the case? Both the RCF and Eighteen sound horns you mentioned are 50 degrees vertical. Although, with the cabinets flown, the 60 horizontal may make more sense.</p><p></p><p>DSP/Amps - I recently saw that the Ashly nxp amps are FIR capable. They are not cheap, ~$4000 for the nxp1.54 and a bit less for the nxp3.02. The Lake LM-26 is going for what ~$4000 and could drive less expensive amps, which may cost less in the end than two Ashlys. What do you think of a 5/6 space rack with a Ashly nxp1.54 driving two tops bi-amped and a nxp3.02 on the subs. Add a single space patch panel with left/right xlr in/out, Speakon outs and Powercon in/outs. Add the Lake if using non-dsp amps. This gives a lightweight, compact rack that should be able to drive the cabinets to their limits.</p><p></p><p>One of the things I thought was stunning about the TW Audio T24n and its matching B30 sub was they could be used as a standard system of two tops, four subs with one amp rack. Or if you needed more output you could double up with two tops and four subs per side. The scalability of this system caused it to punch way above its weight class. I sense you are going in the same direction, which would be fantastic.</p><p></p><p>I know when an idea is presented to a forum like this, it tends to get dissected and examined and pulled apart. Please don't think I'm being disrespectful. On the contrary, I think you have done some fantastic work. I, and I'm sure others, would like to see these ideas further developed.</p><p></p><p>Cheers,</p><p>Simon</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Simon Coffin, post: 133835, member: 388"] Re: New DIY Mid High Hey Peter, Being ever the practical thinker, I've been wondering how to organize your cabinet, a matching sub and all required amplification and DSP into a flexible, efficient and compact package. It seems to me that DIY solutions, while often having some truly brilliant engineering and skillful tuning, are single products that still need to be adapted to play well with other cabinets or DSPs. Their integration is left as an exercise for the user, leading to very mixed results and generally poor acceptance. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there is a gap in current speaker products between the speakers-on-sticks and small platform line arrays. This is the niche previously filled with classic hi-Q trap boxes that nobody is making anymore. Your cabinet sits right in this niche. Packaging the cabinet with matching sub(s) and amps would take it out of the 'just another diy box' into a system that I suspect would get a lot more attention and respect. At least that's the theory. There have been a few systems published in the past, Art Welter's comes to mind, but I can't think of one that was developed collaboratively and that was presented as a complete system, amps, subs, tunings and all. So with that being said, here are my thoughts in no particular order: Mid/High: As long as the cabinet stays tri-amped, the amp rack is going to be more expensive than is realistic for most weekend warriors. While it may give the cabinet a slight sound improvement, the third amp starts to push the system's costs into an uncomfortable area. A biamped cabinet, assuming the power needs are not horrendous keeps the total costs down, especially if a 4 channel amp could be used to drive two tops. A quick survey indicates there are quite a few 4 channel amps that could be used. Subs: You mentioned you have an existing design for a double 18. If that is the case, I'd recommend well thought out stacking feet so the subs can be securely stacked on top of each other, or a mid high on a sub. This provides setup flexibility. Dolly boards that double as grill protection are also a good idea. Flying hardware: I still think the Seeburg K24 is the role model for cabinets in this size range, allowing them to be flown one under the other at the optimal angle with built in hardware. You mentioned earlier that the horn was not optimal for arraying. Assuming the cabinets are arrayed one under the other, do you still think that would be the case? Both the RCF and Eighteen sound horns you mentioned are 50 degrees vertical. Although, with the cabinets flown, the 60 horizontal may make more sense. DSP/Amps - I recently saw that the Ashly nxp amps are FIR capable. They are not cheap, ~$4000 for the nxp1.54 and a bit less for the nxp3.02. The Lake LM-26 is going for what ~$4000 and could drive less expensive amps, which may cost less in the end than two Ashlys. What do you think of a 5/6 space rack with a Ashly nxp1.54 driving two tops bi-amped and a nxp3.02 on the subs. Add a single space patch panel with left/right xlr in/out, Speakon outs and Powercon in/outs. Add the Lake if using non-dsp amps. This gives a lightweight, compact rack that should be able to drive the cabinets to their limits. One of the things I thought was stunning about the TW Audio T24n and its matching B30 sub was they could be used as a standard system of two tops, four subs with one amp rack. Or if you needed more output you could double up with two tops and four subs per side. The scalability of this system caused it to punch way above its weight class. I sense you are going in the same direction, which would be fantastic. I know when an idea is presented to a forum like this, it tends to get dissected and examined and pulled apart. Please don't think I'm being disrespectful. On the contrary, I think you have done some fantastic work. I, and I'm sure others, would like to see these ideas further developed. Cheers, Simon [/QUOTE]
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