Log in
Register
Home
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New profile posts
Latest activity
News
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Features
Log in
Register
Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Install the app
Install
Reply to thread
Home
Forums
Low Earth Orbit
DIY Audio
New DIY Mid High (90deg) - AKA PM90
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Peter Morris" data-source="post: 137881" data-attributes="member: 652"><p>Re: New DIY Mid High</p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">Hi Jack,</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">I always use a live mic for all the reasons you mentioned, and a selection of various and different recorded tracks to test other aspects of the system.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">FWIW I attended a shoot-out / demo on Wednesday for systems suitable for 500 or so people. The room was awful and I'm not too sure how good the source material was either, there was some sort of digital timing error producing a little click from time to time. I didn't think any of the systems sounded good on the recorded music, and I had to actually ask if we could hear the speakers voiced with a microphone! </span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">Darnley’s SM80 / TH118 were there. It was the first time I had heard any of their stuff and as expected they were one of the better sounding systems. To my ear however they were voiced with a little bit of a hole in the low mids. The SM80 sounded a little disconnected from the TH118 as a result.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">After listing to the demo I had a closer look at frequency response of some of Danley’s speakers. The SM80 has a steep roll off from around 200 Hz which is probably what I was hearing.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">I also had a look at the J1 and J2 frequency response plots. The J1 seems to be voiced with the low frequency being 10dB above the midrange, with a little dip around 4 KHz. I think this speaker would sound really nice from what I have been measuring and listen to. What I found interesting was how the J2 was voiced with the low frequency being about -2.0 dB less in the low frequency end compared to the mids (12dB less than the J 1 ... ???)</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">The conclusion I’m starting to come to is - a system measured with Smaart or Systune with the measurement mic at about ear level should show a gentle increase in low frequency from about 500 Hz. This allows for the bass boost we hear from the proximity effect. You should ignore the phase cancelation dips. There should be about 6 –12 dB more below 100 Hz when compared to the mid-range. It also sounds a little nicer if there is a small dip (2 dB or so) around 3.0 KHz to 4.0 KHz i.e. the point on the Fletcher Munson curves where your ear is the most sensitive. </span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"> </span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">The J1 measurement below is an example of what I think will sound really nice.</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">One of the things that I find interesting with this box is when I was developing some IIR settings it was easy to get it to sound nice. Using the FIR setting was much harder. I suspect that when you have an impulse, phase and magnitude response as good as this box is capable of with Lake processing; every small change and error starts to become very noticeable. When the speaker sounds exactly like “you”,you notice everything. The more accurate you make it the more noticeable the small errors.</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">Jack, I have never considered the impact of the pole mount etc. … Excellent suggestion, I’ll do some more work. When my small line array towers come back I will make some more measurements with the speaker 3 or 4 meters in the air so I can avoid the boundary effects.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">In the meantime I’m looking at building some 60 degree boxes. You should be able to fly 2 per side off a small 80 - 100 Kg rated lighting stand and cover a serious amount of people for what is a very small and quick to deploy system. </span></span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><em><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">Below –</span></span></span></em></p><p><em><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">Top SM80, Middle J1,bottom J2</span></span></span></em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Peter Morris, post: 137881, member: 652"] Re: New DIY Mid High [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000] Hi Jack,[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]I always use a live mic for all the reasons you mentioned, and a selection of various and different recorded tracks to test other aspects of the system.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Calibri]FWIW I attended a shoot-out / demo on Wednesday for systems suitable for 500 or so people. The room was awful and I'm not too sure how good the source material was either, there was some sort of digital timing error producing a little click from time to time. I didn't think any of the systems sounded good on the recorded music, and I had to actually ask if we could hear the speakers voiced with a microphone! [/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000] Darnley’s SM80 / TH118 were there. It was the first time I had heard any of their stuff and as expected they were one of the better sounding systems. To my ear however they were voiced with a little bit of a hole in the low mids. The SM80 sounded a little disconnected from the TH118 as a result.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]After listing to the demo I had a closer look at frequency response of some of Danley’s speakers. The SM80 has a steep roll off from around 200 Hz which is probably what I was hearing.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Calibri]I also had a look at the J1 and J2 frequency response plots. The J1 seems to be voiced with the low frequency being 10dB above the midrange, with a little dip around 4 KHz. I think this speaker would sound really nice from what I have been measuring and listen to. What I found interesting was how the J2 was voiced with the low frequency being about -2.0 dB less in the low frequency end compared to the mids (12dB less than the J 1 ... ???)[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000] The conclusion I’m starting to come to is - a system measured with Smaart or Systune with the measurement mic at about ear level should show a gentle increase in low frequency from about 500 Hz. This allows for the bass boost we hear from the proximity effect. You should ignore the phase cancelation dips. There should be about 6 –12 dB more below 100 Hz when compared to the mid-range. It also sounds a little nicer if there is a small dip (2 dB or so) around 3.0 KHz to 4.0 KHz i.e. the point on the Fletcher Munson curves where your ear is the most sensitive. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000] The J1 measurement below is an example of what I think will sound really nice.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000] [FONT=Calibri]One of the things that I find interesting with this box is when I was developing some IIR settings it was easy to get it to sound nice. Using the FIR setting was much harder. I suspect that when you have an impulse, phase and magnitude response as good as this box is capable of with Lake processing; every small change and error starts to become very noticeable. When the speaker sounds exactly like “you”,you notice everything. The more accurate you make it the more noticeable the small errors.[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Calibri] Jack, I have never considered the impact of the pole mount etc. … Excellent suggestion, I’ll do some more work. When my small line array towers come back I will make some more measurements with the speaker 3 or 4 meters in the air so I can avoid the boundary effects.[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]In the meantime I’m looking at building some 60 degree boxes. You should be able to fly 2 per side off a small 80 - 100 Kg rated lighting stand and cover a serious amount of people for what is a very small and quick to deploy system. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [I][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Calibri]Below –[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/I] [I][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Calibri]Top SM80, Middle J1,bottom J2[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/I] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Home
Forums
Low Earth Orbit
DIY Audio
New DIY Mid High (90deg) - AKA PM90
Top
Bottom
Sign-up
or
log in
to join the discussion today!