Newb- Looking for some direction.

J

Jeff Sebers

Freshman
Sep 18, 2013
20
0
0
42
Hi, My name is Jeff, and I'm an alcho... Wait, wrong board.

Hi My name is Jeff, and I've been thrown into the deep end of A/V but enjoying the water.

I am not up to speed on the rules/regs of this board but I am in quite a few other boards so I should catch up quickly.

I work for a church in WA, here is what we have going on:

photo by afb127d79324c2d47dbd06b3c467317d, on Flickr

photo 1 by afb127d79324c2d47dbd06b3c467317d, on Flickr

photo 2 by afb127d79324c2d47dbd06b3c467317d, on Flickr

photo 3 by afb127d79324c2d47dbd06b3c467317d, on Flickr

photo 4 by afb127d79324c2d47dbd06b3c467317d, on Flickr

photo 5 by afb127d79324c2d47dbd06b3c467317d, on Flickr

photo 12 by afb127d79324c2d47dbd06b3c467317d, on Flickr

photo 22 by afb127d79324c2d47dbd06b3c467317d, on Flickr

We have some issues as about 1/2 of our sound equipment is in the 15-20 yr old range.

I am looking to do a few things in the near future, looking for some advice.

1- update the sound board. Looking to go with a digital board, but those running the board are not at the place to go too far away from sliders and knobs.
With my limited knowledge this looks to be a great board, that would meet our needs.
Soundcraft Si Expression 3 | Digital Mixer

Any thoughts on the board itself, and the quality of sound it can produce?

2- update our crown wired mics with wireless mics, we currently have a sennheiser EW165 G3. This mic has been great for 1 singer.
Any thoughts?
 
Re: Newb- Looking for some direction.

Jeff Sebers said:
Hi, My name is Jeff, and I'm an alcho... Wait, wrong board.

Hi My name is Jeff, and I've been thrown into the deep end of A/V but enjoying the water.

I am not up to speed on the rules/regs of this board but I am in quite a few other boards so I should catch up quickly.

I work for a church in WA, here is what we have going on:


photo 2 by afb127d79324c2d47dbd06b3c467317d, on Flickr



1- update the sound board. Looking to go with a digital board, but those running the board are not at the place to go too far away from sliders and knobs.
With my limited knowledge this looks to be a great board, that would meet our needs.
Soundcraft Si Expression 3 | Digital Mixer

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

What are your needs? ie. How many inputs will do you forsee needing, how many auxes, groups etc.

Do the volunteers understand the console you have now? What advantages are you wanting to gain over your current situation?

And more importantly, whats that thing plugged into channel 2?
Chris
 
Re: Newb- Looking for some direction.

Welcome to the boards. The install looks pretty clean and well kept. I would maybe figure out who did the install and make a board purchase through them so you have local support down the line.
 
Re: Newb- Looking for some direction.

Jeff Sebers said:
Any thoughts on the board itself, and the quality of sound it can produce?
Click to expand...

The board is fine, very straightforward and simple, so easy for volunteers to use. However, it lacks advanced routing and other features that more complicated systems have.

Many seem think the system/board/mics etc determine the quality of sound produced by a system, but really, the engineer and the band are what determines if it sounds good or bad.

(I get countless churches that call me to "set up their system" so it sounds good. I tell them that this is impossible; I can make it sound good while I'm there, but as soon as their engineers take over and anything changes, it's not going to sound like I left it anymore. There is no magic "one size fits all" setting that I can provide for them.)
 
Re: Newb- Looking for some direction.

Silas Pradetto said:
(I get countless churches that call me to "set up their system" so it sounds good. I tell them that this is impossible; I can make it sound good while I'm there, but as soon as their engineers take over and anything changes, it's not going to sound like I left it anymore. There is no magic "one size fits all" setting that I can provide for them.)
Click to expand...
Back when I was in the install side of the business-I used to always say "Our biggest problem is that sooner or later we have to let the customer operate the system".

In MANY cases that is very true. Often times I would return and "redo" the console-only to leave and let the volunteers slowly make changes in the name of "improving" it, yet it slowly get worse and worse.

It is not the arrow-it is the Indian.

There are no magic pieces of gear that will solve the issues. Yes some tools can help-BUT ONLY if used properly. When used improperly-even the best tools can often cause more damage than they help.

Sometimes the simple tools are the best.
 
Re: Newb- Looking for some direction.

Jeff,

That system processor the church has was a wise investment of their money - it's very flexible and can allow for future expansion and needs.

Don't let anyone mess with any settings on it…including yourself.

I also agree that you should contact the install company, see if they can give you a lay of the land, then look into upgrades as needed.
 
Re: Newb- Looking for some direction.

Before you get in to a "gear frenzy" that may not make any difference TO THE CONGREGATION (who is paying for it anyway)-----------

FIRST you need to sit down with all parties involved in the service and discuss what real issues you are having. NOT the desire for new toys to play with.

Things like: Are you having problems with gear working? Do you repair or replace?

What about sonic issues in the audience? Ie people not hearing the same thing.

Are you having issues with the musicians (OK OK we ALL have issues with the musicians-------) What would they like to have-given a choice.

As with all things FIRST you have to define the problem-THEN look for solutions.

If you start spending money on things that don't really make an audible difference-then the money flow will stop real quick.

Attack the things that will make the biggest noticeable difference FIRST-or the Church may not want to spend more money.

Sure buying a new "fancy" digital console will give the sound guys something to "play with", but will it make a real difference to the average person?

Think of it this way-if you had to spend YOUR money-what would you buy-that makes the most sense? Toys or tools? Generally tools make more sense (but they are not as much fun-------)
 
Re: Newb- Looking for some direction.

Thanks everyone!
problems we are looking to fix
1- we need 4 more mics. Currently borrowing some to fill our need.
Our local guys we go through cannot get the crown mics we have some of. So we are looking to upgrade as we replace. Considering the sennheisers because the one we have is working well for us.

2-we have a bad hum going through our system from our dimming lights and/or other electrical noise. Not sure on the fix, we are looking to change some wiring phases and wire routing.

we are looking at other things also, but that is all sound wise
 
Re: Newb- Looking for some direction.

Jeff Sebers said:
Thanks everyone!
problems we are looking to fix
1- we need 4 more mics. Currently borrowing some to fill our need.
Our local guys we go through cannot get the crown mics we have some of. So we are looking to upgrade as we replace. Considering the sennheisers because the one we have is working well for us.

2-we have a bad hum going through our system from our dimming lights and/or other electrical noise. Not sure on the fix, we are looking to change some wiring phases and wire routing.

we are looking at other things also, but that is all sound wise
Click to expand...
Well getting a console is not going to fix any of those issues.

The "hum" issue can be something that you can easily spend a ton of money trying to fix-and not actually fix it.

I HIGHLY suggest getting somebody in who KNOWS what they are doing (good luck in that regard-it is NOT an easy thing to do) and figure out if the issue is with the electrical system (as it appears) or rather with some of the audio wiring/grounding/pin 1 issues etc.

A pin 1 issue or audio signal grounding issues can cause all sorts of problems that people will try to blame and trace to electrical issues.
 
Re: Newb- Looking for some direction.

Does your church maintain a logbook/journal/diary of your systems? This can be very helpful in organizations which rely on volunteers. Ideally it would start from the beginning, here is what we have and why it was chosen, here is what we changed, well you get the idea. Whenever you have a problem make a note of it and the steps you have taken to resolve the issue. Which brings us to your issue #2, what was changed, did a fix in one place perhaps cause an issue elsewhere. The logbook is really great when someone new comes in and they can look back and see what has gone on in the past. I also hope that somewhere, neatly arranged is a file of all the user manuals for every bit of gear you use. As far as the microphones, what model of Crown do you have and what Sennheisers are you wanting to switch to. Now, since this is in the off topic forum, I feel honor bound to go off topic. Podium vs. Lectern | Manner of Speaking Who knew that an acceptable plural for podium was podia. I must also say that I consider a PZM the best mic for a podium.
 
Re: Newb- Looking for some direction.

Rob Spence said:
But most people don't have em at their feet.
Click to expand...
People talk out their feet there up Nawth? Down here they mostly talk out their mouths although if you do political events miking their arses is best as that's where politicians talk out of ;) .

Seriously, a PZM on the floor works for a podium?
 
Re: Newb- Looking for some direction.

First off, my apologies for the "podium vs lectern" topic swerve. But since podiums and politicians has come up...... Once upon a time there was Speaker of the House Carl Albert, who stood 5 feet 4. Whenever he had a speaking engagement he had an aid who carried around a "personal Podium". On a film set it would be called an apple box. We might think of it as an old wooden pop box. This was placed behind the lectern. Speakers earlier on the bill would have to lean forward to get to the lectern. Then the esteemed Mr. Albert (all 5 foot 4 of him) would walk across the stage and magically become much taller for his speech. I guess being a politician he never figured out that the audience could see what was going on.
 
Re: Newb- Looking for some direction.

Ivan Beaver said:
Well getting a console is not going to fix any of those issues.

The "hum" issue can be something that you can easily spend a ton of money trying to fix-and not actually fix it.

I HIGHLY suggest getting somebody in who KNOWS what they are doing (good luck in that regard-it is NOT an easy thing to do) and figure out if the issue is with the electrical system (as it appears) or rather with some of the audio wiring/grounding/pin 1 issues etc.

A pin 1 issue or audio signal grounding issues can cause all sorts of problems that people will try to blame and trace to electrical issues.
Click to expand...

the he him is comin out of all of our monitors, could this be because they are all 1/4 inch rather than xlr like the rest of the system?

John Fruits said:
Does your church maintain a logbook/journal/diary of your systems? This can be very helpful in organizations which rely on volunteers. Ideally it would start from the beginning, here is what we have and why it was chosen, here is what we changed, well you get the idea. Whenever you have a problem make a note of it and the steps you have taken to resolve the issue. Which brings us to your issue #2, what was changed, did a fix in one place perhaps cause an issue elsewhere. The logbook is really great when someone new comes in and they can look back and see what has gone on in the past. I also hope that somewhere, neatly arranged is a file of all the user manuals for every bit of gear you use. As far as the microphones, what model of Crown do you have and what Sennheisers are you wanting to switch to. Now, since this is in the off topic forum, I feel honor bound to go off topic. Podium vs. Lectern | Manner of Speaking Who knew that an acceptable plural for podium was podia. I must also say that I consider a PZM the best mic for a podium.
Click to expand...
we do have all of the service manuals but no we do not have a logbook, but we will now :)

and yes yes we use channel 2 for a TB mic. It only goes through the monitors. We don't have it plugged in the TB location because it needs phantom power.
 
Re: Newb- Looking for some direction.

Jeff Sebers said:
the he him is comin out of all of our monitors, could this be because they are all 1/4 inch rather than xlr like the rest of the system?


.
Click to expand...
I assume you mean the line level connections between various parts of the monitor system.

Are they TRS or TS 1/4" plugs? If TS (unbalanced)-then yes-that would be the FIRST place I would start to get things fixed.

Very often AC and other issues are blamed-when the real problem is in the audio signal grounding.

And if your monitor system is unbalanced-then you can spend A LOT of money trying to upgrade the AC power and lighting and yet get little to no improvement-except making the electrician happy by sending you a bill.

As I say all the time-FIRST you have to determine the REAL problem-not guessing at it.
 
Re: Newb- Looking for some direction.

Ivan Beaver said:
I assume you mean the line level connections between various parts of the monitor system.

Are they TRS or TS 1/4" plugs? If TS (unbalanced)-then yes-that would be the FIRST place I would start to get things fixed.

Very often AC and other issues are blamed-when the real problem is in the audio signal grounding.

And if your monitor system is unbalanced-then you can spend A LOT of money trying to upgrade the AC power and lighting and yet get little to no improvement-except making the electrician happy by sending you a bill.

As I say all the time-FIRST you have to determine the REAL problem-not guessing at it.
Click to expand...
Agreed, we are looking for the real problem before changing anything.

they are all 1/4 inch with one band on the plug. So I'm guessing an unbalanced signal.

The monitors only have the 1/4 input in them.

on another note, we rented a board while ours was getting looked at/cleaned and we had no humming. Frustrating issue for sure. Local av company we work with suggests new board.
 
Ron Kimball said:
People talk out their feet there up Nawth? Down here they mostly talk out their mouths although if you do political events miking their arses is best as that's where politicians talk out of ;) .

Seriously, a PZM on the floor works for a podium?
Click to expand...

Well, since the podium is what you stand on while behind the lecturn. I don't expect a PZM works well down on the podium but at least there are usually no papers making noise :-)


Sent from my iPad HD
 
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