Overtime

Re: Overtime

Sounds like they need a union... :-)

JR

PS: Speaking of cases, the Village people (cop) just won the rights back to his songs in court... Something like 35 years years after assignment you can petition to get the rights back. Still lots of 35YO music out there with value. This could be interesting for music publishers.
 
Re: Overtime

Sounds like they need a union... :-)

JR

The IATSE can represent personal assistants in the same way we represent other non-technical workers... through what is called a "B Local".

@ Per... so you're saying that equitable compensation is not necessary because of touring? I beg to differ. In touring theatre, overtime is a specifically negotiated matter designed to compensate workers particularly well for extended work periods. Why should Ms O'Neill be uncompensated for the 7000+ hours of OT she's put in?
 
Re: Overtime

The IATSE can represent personal assistants in the same way we represent other non-technical workers... through what is called a "B Local".

@ Per... so you're saying that equitable compensation is not necessary because of touring? I beg to differ. In touring theatre, overtime is a specifically negotiated matter designed to compensate workers particularly well for extended work periods. Why should Ms O'Neill be uncompensated for the 7000+ hours of OT she's put in?
We'll there you go...

I am too lazy to research the specific details of of this one case, but it smells like the classic debate about apprenticeships and people willing to work for a modest stipend to gain experience and industry contacts. Lady Gaga now operates in a pretty narrow high profile part of the business, it seems there are intangible benefits from any association with her. If she abused her employee perhaps the employee should have quit before logging all those hours. I suspect there were other's willing to take that job. Sounds a little like trying to re-write the deal after the fact to take advantage of Gaga's later success... or not... I do not know the details.

To the broader economic point... mandating full pay for apprentices, and higher minimum wages, may appear like they are helping people, but instead they only reduce the amount of money available to give more people entry level jobs so they can get a foot in the door, gain work experience, and move on to better higher paying jobs. Sounds like Gaga's assistant got all the experience she needed or wanted.
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I thought the song publishing rights case was more interesting, didn't know there was a reversion clause written into the law.

JR
 
Re: Overtime

The link provided was behind a pay wall so I could only ready the first paragraph or so, but in the USA, laws regarding interns and apprentices are actually pretty clear, along with the rules about proper classification of employees v. "independent contractors."

Unpaid interns cannot provide any service of value to the employer. Period. Apprenticeships are different, but apprentice wages are limited to 2 years by federal law, after that journeyman (or regular employee) wages must be paid.

If Ms O'Neill was an intern, in theory she would not be eligible for overtime pay because she would not have been paid in the first place. Apprentice wages are not exempt from USA overtime laws.

But I think it's important to note that she appears to be bringing her claims in the UK, so what you or I know about labor law probably does not apply except for the portion of plaintiff's work done in the USA.
 
Re: Overtime

@ Per... so you're saying that equitable compensation is not necessary because of touring? I beg to differ. In touring theatre, overtime is a specifically negotiated matter designed to compensate workers particularly well for extended work periods. Why should Ms O'Neill be uncompensated for the 7000+ hours of OT she's put in?

It is my impression, and this might be inaccurate, that she is claiming overtime for being available 24/7, counting all hours of the week minus whatever is the standard working week in the US.
Working as a PA, or touring with a band as tour manager 24/7 is often the case and sometimes a stipulated requirement in the contract. If you are a rigger on the same tour, you are probably giving most of your time to the tour, not being able to go away and do something else, but question of overtime I'm sure would only come up if there was a situation where you had to work for an excessive amount of hours.
I'm sure that LG can afford to pay her PA more than $75K a year, and maybe she should given the demands she puts on her staff, but I'm equally sure that her PA at no time was given the impression that being LG's PA would be a 9-to-5 deal.

Here is another link http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2274304/Lady-Gaga-slams-Jennifer-ONeill-suing-says-cash-cancer-stricken-staff-member.html and the case is being heard in New York
 
Re: Overtime

I was not talking about labor law but natural economic laws or principles.

We are seeing the effects of even more well-intentioned legislation passed recently, but this is not new.

The penalty for violating economic laws is real but not as obvious to some, who think they just need to double down and increase government involvement into the private economy.

Opinions vary.

JR
 
Re: Overtime

We are seeing the effects of even more well-intentioned legislation passed recently, but this is not new.

The penalty for violating economic laws is real but not as obvious to some, who think they just need to double down and increase government involvement into the private economy.

Opinions vary.

JR


Just wait until fast food workers get paid $15/hour. That'll solve everything!




[/sarcasm]


If you're made aware of the expectations of your employer up front, and agree to them, you basically forfeit your right to complain about conditions later, so long as actual work conditions were as described. Of course the real world doesn't actually work like this. But it should.
 
Re: Overtime

Bangladesh garment workers are trying to unionize...and encountering violence and push back from the factory owners. I support their collective bargaining effort. Evidence exists of substandard work conditions and abuse "there" if unchecked. If they press for too high wages they negotiate themselves out of a profitable industry so that aspect is self-correcting. Not that collective bargaining always serves their own best interest when negative consequences are not relatively short term and readily apparent. Look at auto industry, and Detroit. Big pay was nice while it lasted but economic reality always gets the last word, when the music stops.

Lady Gaga's right hand girl.... she'll be OK. While suing her last employer may not look good on her resume.


JR
 
Re: Overtime

Just wait until fast food workers get paid $15/hour. That'll solve everything!




[/sarcasm]
The mayor of Wash DC just vetoed a local minimum wage increase to something like $12/hr for walmart and some similar retail workers. While the mayor did not oppose higher minimum wages in general, he appreciated that a local narrow ordinance would just chase jobs into nearby jurisdictions, so hurt more of his unemployed constituents than it would help.
If you're made aware of the expectations of your employer up front, and agree to them, you basically forfeit your right to complain about conditions later, so long as actual work conditions were as described. Of course the real world doesn't actually work like this. But it should.

I only had one job that I could not literally walk away from (Drafted into US army), and some people walk away from that job too.

JR
 
Re: Overtime

I only had one job that I could not literally walk away from (Drafted into US army), and some people walk away from that job too.

JR


Many people are too afraid to walk away from their jobs. They would rather use government or unions to force their employers to pay them more than do the work required to develop a skill that an employer will pay more for. That's all a job really is; you offer your skills to an employer in exchange for a salary. If you develop a skill worth more money, you can ask for more from your current employer, or go somewhere else your skills will be rewarded. If you don't, you can hope that your service length will be worth something, but that is no guarantee.

Of course, you already know all this too. You're a smart man JR, I just enjoy expounding on the subject. Beats posting on facebook.


I work with a number of men who retired from the Navy. One of them told me during his time as an instructor at electronics school a student deserted. They stopped paying him, and he came back to be dishonorably discharged. Turned out he was actually still living in the barracks, just getting up early and leaving the base instead of going to his assigned classes.
 
Re: Overtime

Many people are too afraid to walk away from their jobs. They would rather use government or unions to force their employers to pay them more than do the work required to develop a skill that an employer will pay more for.
We all want more money, and some people are in a difficult position wrt quitting if they have family and responsibilities. While we complain about the poor job market, in some regions there are skilled jobs that go unfilled. I believe that some large fraction of people who want jobs could be trained to work in these unfilled positions. Another fraction can not. The best we can do is offer the opportunity for people to work, not guarantee them a good result.
That's all a job really is; you offer your skills to an employer in exchange for a salary. If you develop a skill worth more money, you can ask for more from your current employer, or go somewhere else your skills will be rewarded. If you don't, you can hope that your service length will be worth something, but that is no guarantee.
I would phrase that differently... You may get hired because of your skills (or degree, or experience), but you get paid for creating value. For the relationship to be sustainable, every worker must create more value for their employer than they get paid, or the business will not continue.
Of course, you already know all this too. You're a smart man JR, I just enjoy expounding on the subject. Beats posting on facebook.
I'm sure I irritate some people but I am fascinated by economics, while it is what I call a soft science.... Not like chemistry and physics, where there is only one result and the mechanisms are pretty well understood. As the old joke goes if you want three opinions ask two economists. While a "soft" science and we can argue about details the, the gross influences of economic incentives is difficult to ignore. I see the current economy as the expected result of current policy and perverse incentives created that are slowing growth. If it wasn't for an unstoppable fracking energy boom (and they have tried to stop it too), we would be in far worse shape. So perhaps acting with good intentions but creating the opposite result.
I work with a number of men who retired from the Navy. One of them told me during his time as an instructor at electronics school a student deserted. They stopped paying him, and he came back to be dishonorably discharged. Turned out he was actually still living in the barracks, just getting up early and leaving the base instead of going to his assigned classes.
They weren't running a very tight ship were they? I recall when I was in the army, I wanted to live off base, but being single and lower rank, I was not allowed to. So what I did was go on leave for a few weeks and give up my bunk in the barracks (which somebody else moved into almost immediately). After I came back from leave, I just never moved back into the barracks. As long as I showed up for the morning formation on time, nobody was the wiser. My platoon sergeant (not the sharpest stick in the bunch) finally figured out what I was up to, a couple months later. By then he was too embarrassed to turn me in, because he would have to admit he didn't notice me missing from the barracks for a few months. :-)...

JR
 
Re: Overtime

I was pretty much finished with this thread as soon as I realized: If it's in her contract, she gets it. Otherwise, she doesn't have to be paid. That. Simple.
 
Re: Overtime

I was pretty much finished with this thread as soon as I realized: If it's in her contract, she gets it. Otherwise, she doesn't have to be paid. That. Simple.

No, it's not that simple. That's why this is being litigated. Likewise, if this involves nonpayment of wages due under LAW and/or misclassification of an employee, there could be criminal charges later.
 
Re: Overtime

I guess the courts will decide if this has merit (if they don't settle).

I doubt Gaga is at much risk of spending time in the gray-bar hotel isn't this a civil action?

I have probably said this before, but how do you log 7k+ hours of overtime and only try to get paid for it after you no longer have the gig?

This smells like an opportunistic lawyer going after deep pockets.

We'll see... Definitely looks like hard ball negotiation. She'll probably get paid something to go away..

JR