Perception of volume change at higher/lower levels

Jan 14, 2011
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A quick question on how the ear/brain works, so I can explain to a lay user:
Is the same level change (in dB) more apparent at higher or lower perceived volumes?

A user is asking about the volume knobs on a digital system where each click of the digital encoder changes the level by a fixed percentage, but she says the level is "jumping", though I know it's only noticeable at higher volumes. Can I explain that it only seems to be jumping?

I know that volume is perception, unlike level, so I'm asking about the variability of perception.
 
Re: Perception of volume change at higher/lower levels

It is definitely more noticeable at higher levels. At levels where it starts getting tiring or painful, 3dB can feel like more of a change than a 10dB change around 50dB.

When the Bel scale was invented, I bet the 1Bel/10dB perceived doubling was established at levels easily achievable and controllable with the equipment available at the time, thus giving results that might not be truly representative of the 95-115dB environment we might find ourself operating in today.
 
Re: Perception of volume change at higher/lower levels

Can I explain that it only seems to be jumping?

I know that volume is perception, unlike level, so I'm asking about the variability of perception.
If she says the level is jumping, it's jumping. Female hearing is generally better than males, at least in the high frequency range.

At 1000 Hz, a 10 dB change sounds about twice as loud, while at 20 Hz it only takes around 5 dB to sound twice as loud.
Our hearing becomes "flatter" at loud levels, which encourages hack sound engineers to mix loud- it's easier to get a balanced mix.
The equal loudness contour chart tells you what the average person hears, but individuals vary from the curve.
My girlfriend (how are we boys and girls in our mid fifties?) can still hear 20 kHz clearly, I can't hear above 15 kHz, and she in general is about 10 dB more sensitive above 200 Hz.

Then we get to variability of perception, I have noise induced hearing loss in the typical 4kHz range, my sensitivity is some 50 dB less than hers.
At levels above 75 dB SPL or so I have no problem hearing 4kHz, but by 100 dB I start needing to wear hearing protection- my hearing's effective "dynamic range" is considerably reduced from what it used to be.
The up side is I seldom have people come up to the console complaining "I can't hear this or that", if I can hear all the parts, anybody with decent hearing will. The down side is nothing sounds "great" (to me) anymore.

Art
 

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Re: Perception of volume change at higher/lower levels

This is a very interesting question and we do have some objective evidence to answer it. Looking at equal loudness curves (red) we can indirectly compare the dependence of perceived loudness on measured SPL at different frequencies.

See the equal loudness curves in this graph:
Fletcher

The intention of the FM and equal loudness curves is to compare perceived loudness of a fixed SPL at different frequencies, but the curves also give us information on the differences between perceived loudness and measured SPL at different fixed frequencies. The red lines are equal loudness contours and the vertical distances between adjacent red lines can be interpreted as the differences in perceived loudness of the 2 sounds at that frequency. For example the red line that is 80 dB SPL at 1 kHz is perceived as 80 phons at 1 kHz, 10 kHz, and 100 Hz, although it takes about 92 dB SPL at 10 kHz and 91 dB SPL at 100 Hz to be perceived as 80 phons.

To get an answer to your question from that graph, look at the vertical distances between the 80 and 100 phon lines and between the 40 and 60 phon lines. The differences in perceived loudness are, by definition, 20 dB for each comparison (differences in phons are measured in dB). At 1 kHz the differences in dB SPL (vertical distances between the red lines) are just about exactly 20 dB for both the 40-60 and 80-100 comparisions. Reading off the red (dotted) lines, at 10 kHz, the differences are about 18 dB for the 40-60 and about 21 dB for the 80-100. So at 10 kHz, an 18 dB change from 55 to 73 dB SPL will be perceived as a 20 dB change, as will a 21 dB change from 93 to 104 dB SPL. At 100 Hz, a 15 dB change from 63 to 78 dB SPL will be perceived as a 20 dB change, as will a 15 dB change from 91 to 106 dB SPL. At 20 Hz, a 12 dB change from 89 to 101 dB SPL will be perceived as a 20 dB change, as will a 7 dB change from 101 to 108 dB SPL, or a 10 dB change from 108 to 118 dB SPL, or a 10 dB change from or 118 to 128 dB SPL.

So, based on these data, it seems that there is not much difference in how big the perceived change in loudness will be for softer and louder sounds, except at very high or very low frequencies. At high frequencies, there is a tendency toward perceiving a 20 dB increase less noticeably at higher SPLs compared with lower SPLs, but it is not a very strong effect. At 10 kHz, an 18 dB change at lower SPL will be perceived similarly to a 21 dB change at higher SPL. At low frequencies, it is not a consistent effect in one direction or the other. In the main audible frequency range there is really no noticeable difference. The data do not necessarily extrapolate to painfully high SPLs to address what Per has observed empirically.

Clearly, a given dB SPL is perceived as softer at both low and high frequency extremes, and the changes in loudness are perceived to be smaller at low frequencies, but I think the answer to your question is that the perceived change in loudness is at most weakly dependent on the measured SPL, really only noticeable at frequency extremes. The usual caveat applies that psychoacoustic studies like the equal loudness contours involve averages over groups of volunteer participants and can predict general trends well, but not necessarily the experience of a given individual.

The more likely explanation for what your client observed is nonlinearity in the attenuation of gain at different gain levels, this is probably not a psychoacoustic effect.
 
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Re: Perception of volume change at higher/lower levels

Art, you beat me with posting the equal loudness curves while I was typing (thinking)!
I have noticed the same thing you have about decreased "dynamic range" of my noise-damaged hearing.
Also, you give a very interesting explanation of why mixing recordings at lower SPLs (75-85 dB) generally gives mixes that translate better when played on widely varying equipment at many different SPLs.
 
Re: Perception of volume change at higher/lower levels

I think the first thing you might want to check is exactly how the "percentage" on the device translates to attenuation/boost in dB. It is possible that whomever coded it screwed up, since it is digital.
 
Re: Perception of volume change at higher/lower levels

A quick question on how the ear/brain works, so I can explain to a lay user:
Is the same level change (in dB) more apparent at higher or lower perceived volumes?

A user is asking about the volume knobs on a digital system where each click of the digital encoder changes the level by a fixed percentage, but she says the level is "jumping", though I know it's only noticeable at higher volumes. Can I explain that it only seems to be jumping?

I know that volume is perception, unlike level, so I'm asking about the variability of perception.

There is another variable in the mix... actually in the machinery. There are muscles in our inner ear that tighten or loosen to change the gain or transfer efficiency of sound level from outside to inside our ear.

Our long term dynamic range is larger than our short term dynamic range because these inner ear muscles adjust for current ballpark loudness conditions.

Individual sensitivity could vary some from listener to listener, many dynamics processes work to conceal level changes based on understanding of how our mechanical and perceptual system work. The psycho-acoustic gimmickry may be slightly more or less effective with different individuals.


JR
 
Re: Perception of volume change at higher/lower levels

It is definitely more noticeable at higher levels. At levels where it starts getting tiring or painful, 3dB can feel like more of a change than a 10dB change around 50dB.

When the Bel scale was invented, I bet the 1Bel/10dB perceived doubling was established at levels easily achievable and controllable with the equipment available at the time, thus giving results that might not be truly representative of the 95-115dB environment we might find ourself operating in today.
Per, a bunch of the posters below are saying the opposite of this, but what you said lines up closely with my experience, even if the data doesn't. Do you care to comment on the discrepancy?
 
Re: Perception of volume change at higher/lower levels

I can't speak for Art but my post does not directly contradict Per's empirical observation as he described it. As I said, the data do not necessarily extrapolate to painfully high SPLs to address what Per has observed empirically. His observation seems to be in the > 100 dBA range where pain is an issue and the data I refer to are mostly in the <100 dBA range where pain is not an issue. Are your own observations in the painful SPL range? And how are you measuring SPL changes? If you are using dBA, you will miss the low frequency changes, which may be more potent drivers of loudness perception, but dBA will underestimate the true dB SPL changes.
 
Re: Perception of volume change at higher/lower levels

Per, a bunch of the posters below are saying the opposite of this, but what you said lines up closely with my experience, even if the data doesn't. Do you care to comment on the discrepancy?

There are two reference grids here. The phon levels of equal loudness makes a comparison of what is perceived to be equal at different frequencies, while the actuel level is not subject to any subjectivity on the listeners part, reference is 1KHz where phon by definition equals dB.
The equal loudness curves doesn't say anything about perceived difference between levels, that part is already defined and locked away from any discussion by the definition of Bel and dB.
I reality however, "double" is a very subjective and unprecise term when our senses are at play. If a rock is twice as big as another rock, how much bigger is it really? If it is twice as high, wide and deep, then it is in reality eight times bigger and heavier, although many might perceive it as twice as big. To the average person, 20lbs is twice as heavy as 10 lbs, but they might find that 150 lbs is twice as heavy as 120 lbs because the effort to lift it gets closer to the limit of their strength.
Perception of speed is another area where what feels twice as fast is very subjective. Same with light, a ten fold increase from 1 to 10 lux feels rather significant because you can see a lot better, then the increase up to 100,000 lux doesn't seem quite as steep in any given 10 fold interval, but the increase from 100,000 to a million is overwhelming unless you have sunglasses.
In addition to the non-linearity of our senses, you have the time factor that JR pointed out, most of our senses adjust in various manners, a slow shift might go totally unnoticed until you reach a threshold. Alertness/tiredness comes into play etc. etc.
A 1dB change is supposed to be the limit of what we can perceive, but we can clearly perceive the qualitative change of a 0.5 dB cut on vocals at 1.2 KHz.

Anyway, it is all subjective. When is music twice as good? What tastes twice as good as chocolate?
 
Re: Perception of volume change at higher/lower levels

<snippty snip>

A 1dB change is supposed to be the limit of what we can perceive, but we can clearly perceive the qualitative change of a 0.5 dB cut on vocals at 1.2 KHz.

On the other hand, depending on the bandwidth of the cut you might be changing a lot more than 1.2KHz.

On the topic of light subjectiveness... I've been very frustrated with 575W vs 750W instruments being my tools... mixing and matching them is just absurd sometimes because of the perception of the different light levels. Sometimes I get the list of instruments and I feel like someone must have sat down and said, "Okay, how much diversity in the instruments can I get so that is seems like there wasn't a single rational thought behind this setup..."