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Phase align subs to mains
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<blockquote data-quote="Chris Johnson" data-source="post: 117248" data-attributes="member: 975"><p>Re: Phase align subs to mains</p><p></p><p>Interesting thread.</p><p></p><p>We can sit here all day and talk about how a system 'feels' etc... but at the end of the day, if we are trying to define whether 2 loudspeakers are aligned at a certain frequency, that is a quantitative question, that can only be accurately answered using quantitative tools.</p><p></p><p>Sure, systems that look nice on a trace sometimes don't 'feel' right, and sometimes you get technically poor systems and have a great show. But thats not what's being asked here.</p><p></p><p>Here are the salient points for me:</p><p></p><p>First: Physical alignment is the first issue. This is true for all speakers, not just subs. The art of good system design is in physically positioning the speakers in such a way that they will later align well after processing. This is true when deploying delays for a main system, and its true when deploying subs.</p><p></p><p>Second: In the typical subs-on-the-ground-speakers-in-the-air scenario, the subs and tops can only be 'aligned' at one point. This is purely because the relative distance (and thus the relative arrival times) change as you move throughout the venue. Picking your point is important. I normally pick the middle of the audience area. In an arena, this is normally about FOH position. If you pick the middle, then the absolute difference in alignment for the audience members will be better, because the absolute distance to the point of alignment is lower. </p><p>For example: better that at the front the subs are 5ms early, and at the back they are 5ms late, than being aligned at the front, and 10ms late at the back.</p><p></p><p>Third: There are lots of OK ways to get your subs aligned, but using a transfer function is by far the easiest. Simply pick your point, find the delay to the mic using the main system and capture a trace. Leave that delay in place, and capture a trace of the subs. Compare the phase traces at the crossover region (which can be easily located using the magnitude traces). delay the earlier system so that the traces overlap through the crossover, and voila. Normally, if the subs are on the floor, they will be early (since they are closer).</p><p>Sometimes, if the relative distances are large, the amount of delay required might not be obvious. In this case, you can approximate the delay time required by using the relative distance measurement and start with that before measuring. This will hep you get in the ballpark, and then your TF will get it spot on.</p><p></p><p>Lastly: Smaart cost me <£300 from a dealer. Since owning it, I've used it on approximately £100k worth of work. So in terms of investment, its pretty minimal, and paid for itself in no time at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chris Johnson, post: 117248, member: 975"] Re: Phase align subs to mains Interesting thread. We can sit here all day and talk about how a system 'feels' etc... but at the end of the day, if we are trying to define whether 2 loudspeakers are aligned at a certain frequency, that is a quantitative question, that can only be accurately answered using quantitative tools. Sure, systems that look nice on a trace sometimes don't 'feel' right, and sometimes you get technically poor systems and have a great show. But thats not what's being asked here. Here are the salient points for me: First: Physical alignment is the first issue. This is true for all speakers, not just subs. The art of good system design is in physically positioning the speakers in such a way that they will later align well after processing. This is true when deploying delays for a main system, and its true when deploying subs. Second: In the typical subs-on-the-ground-speakers-in-the-air scenario, the subs and tops can only be 'aligned' at one point. This is purely because the relative distance (and thus the relative arrival times) change as you move throughout the venue. Picking your point is important. I normally pick the middle of the audience area. In an arena, this is normally about FOH position. If you pick the middle, then the absolute difference in alignment for the audience members will be better, because the absolute distance to the point of alignment is lower. For example: better that at the front the subs are 5ms early, and at the back they are 5ms late, than being aligned at the front, and 10ms late at the back. Third: There are lots of OK ways to get your subs aligned, but using a transfer function is by far the easiest. Simply pick your point, find the delay to the mic using the main system and capture a trace. Leave that delay in place, and capture a trace of the subs. Compare the phase traces at the crossover region (which can be easily located using the magnitude traces). delay the earlier system so that the traces overlap through the crossover, and voila. Normally, if the subs are on the floor, they will be early (since they are closer). Sometimes, if the relative distances are large, the amount of delay required might not be obvious. In this case, you can approximate the delay time required by using the relative distance measurement and start with that before measuring. This will hep you get in the ballpark, and then your TF will get it spot on. Lastly: Smaart cost me <£300 from a dealer. Since owning it, I've used it on approximately £100k worth of work. So in terms of investment, its pretty minimal, and paid for itself in no time at all. [/QUOTE]
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