pre-setting side-wash content....

[Dick Rees]

Friends....

I've got a jazz fest coming up and am already going over the setup for the day in my head. Headliner is "smooth jazz" w/guitar lead, vocals, drums, bass and keys/synth with a double on saxes. I'll have five wedges on stage plus a butt-kicker for the drummer (he asked for it). For earlier in the day I'll be running quick, down-and-dirty set changes with minimal monitoring, relying mostly on a couple of 200W powered speakers cross-firing from the front corners of the 20 x 20 stage....a sort of "catch-all" setup. The question is this:

With time at an absolute minimum for change-over/line-check/wedge tweaks, would you:

A. Start from nothing in the sides and give them what they request OR

B. Start with house mix (light on bass and drums) in the sides and subtract what they don't want.

I'm leaning towards the house mix at the moment.

TIA for your help.

 

[Kip Conner]

Re: pre-setting side-wash content....

What are the earlier acts? Are they similar in instrumentation? Are they setting up in front of the headliners wedges?

I'd be afraid that 200 watt side fills are only going to be good for vocals even if the bands don't play too loud. Most good jazz bands need very little on stage because they know how to listen to each other.

 

[Dick Rees]

Re: pre-setting side-wash content....

What are the earlier acts? Are they similar in instrumentation? Are they setting up in front of the headliners wedges?

I'd be afraid that 200 watt side fills are only going to be good for vocals even if the bands don't play too loud. Most good jazz bands need very little on stage because they know how to listen to each other.

It's all jazz and moderate volume. The stage is 20 x 20. 200W from each side will be plenty. If it's not, I'll put up two 400W cabs, but the 200's have never run out of gas for this usage on a stage where nobody is more than 10-12 feet from the washes.

 

[kristianjohnsen]

Re: pre-setting side-wash content....

Friends....

I've got a jazz fest coming up and am already going over the setup for the day in my head. Headliner is "smooth jazz" w/guitar lead, vocals, drums, bass and keys/synth with a double on saxes. I'll have five wedges on stage plus a butt-kicker for the drummer (he asked for it). For earlier in the day I'll be running quick, down-and-dirty set changes with minimal monitoring, relying mostly on a couple of 200W powered speakers cross-firing from the front corners of the 20 x 20 stage....a sort of "catch-all" setup. The question is this:

With time at an absolute minimum for change-over/line-check/wedge tweaks, would you:

A. Start from nothing in the sides and give them what they request OR

B. Start with house mix (light on bass and drums) in the sides and subtract what they don't want.

I'm leaning towards the house mix at the moment.

TIA for your help.

I would start out with all vocal mics in the side fills and nothing else.

I would set the levels in such a manner that the right side mics are stongest in the left side side fills and vice-versa. Middle mic equally strong in both.

I'd set the levels so that when someone speaks into a mic, anyone else on stage hears the sidefills at a level similar to someone standing right in front of whoever was talking.
In other words, the idea being that if someone is using a vocal mic, anyone using that mic can be heard at a "natural level" anywhere on stage.

I'd arrange my settings so that a "0 dB" reading on the inputs meter of the vocals channels resulted in the desired acoustic level from the side fills. Once the band gets going or line checks I'd "mix on gains" so that whatever you hear correlates to whatever they are hearing on stage - or always aim for 0dB on the inputs, whatever works best. If you need you preamp levels static for recording, I'd consider using post-fade sends for the sidefills instead.

If anyone requests more level of a vocal mic than what is presented in the side fills, or requests another channel, I'd go for the floor wedges as those, at least in theory, are spot monitors for individual performers.

Considering this is a jazz gig I'm typing under the presumption that the band balances themselves somewhat on stage. If levels are all over the place, then the side fills need to be utilized like any floor monitor with a mix built from scratch in each instance.

 

[Dick Rees]

Re: pre-setting side-wash content....

I would start out with all vocal mics in the side fills and nothing else.

I would set the levels in such a manner that the right side mics are stongest in the left side side fills and vice-versa. Middle mic equally strong in both.

I'd set the levels so that when someone speaks into a mic, anyone else on stage hears the sidefills at a level similar to someone standing right in front of whoever was talking.
In other words, the idea being that if someone is using a vocal mic, anyone using that mic can be heard at a "natural level" anywhere on stage.

I'd arrange my settings so that a "0 dB" reading on the inputs meter of the vocals channels resulted in the desired acoustic level from the side fills. Once the band gets going or line checks I'd "mix on gains" so that whatever you hear correlates to whatever they are hearing on stage - or always aim for 0dB on the inputs, whatever works best. If you need you preamp levels static for recording, I'd consider using post-fade sends for the sidefills instead.

If anyone requests more level of a vocal mic than what is presented in the side fills, or requests another channel, I'd go for the floor wedges as those, at least in theory, are spot monitors for individual performers.

Considering this is a jazz gig I'm typing under the presumption that the band balances themselves somewhat on stage. If levels are all over the place, then the side fills need to be utilized like any floor monitor with a mix built from scratch in each instance.

You are correct. That is how I normally do it.

 

[Ivan Beaver]

Re: pre-setting side-wash content....

Depending on the expectations of the bands- I would start with nothing in the sidefills.

If they are not used to them-then just rely on the wedges.

The reason being that the less "noise" on stage the better-regarding bleed through.

The next option would be vocals only-but not to loud.

As a general rule-jazz musicians are looking for a more "natural" sound-less cluttered.

 

[Dick Rees]

Re: pre-setting side-wash content....

Depending on the expectations of the bands- I would start with nothing in the sidefills.

If they are not used to them-then just rely on the wedges.

As a general rule-jazz musicians are looking for a more "natural" sound-less cluttered.

Speaking as a performer, I find side-washes to be more "natural" sounding than a bunch of wedges. Of course, it depends on the stage environs. In this case there's a Clearspan roof over the stage and the wedges will tend to bounce around more than the cross-firing side monitors. I should have said "minus bass and drums" instead of bass and drums at a lower level.

The keys/synth I feel will spread nicely out of the sides (or I could give him a keyboard amp, but the two keyboards are set up on different sides of the stage instead of together.....one player, two positions) and I'd give the lead instruments (guitar, sax) equal priority to the vocal, maybe a tad less.

And this is "smooth jazz" rather than the more traditional. Think half-way to R & B with some funk in the mixture. Nicely arranged, but a bit different than the "natural" sound of a standard jazz combo.

Thanks all for the replies. Very much appreciated.

DR

 

[Craig Stone]

Re: pre-setting side-wash content....

Also speaking as a performer, it took me some time to get used to side (fills) washes. I did not like it at all, at first. Especially when whoever ran them had them cranked. It made me very uncomfortable.

 

[Dick Rees]

Re: pre-setting side-wash content....

Also speaking as a performer, it took me some time to get used to side (fills) washes. I did not like it at all, at first. Especially when whoever ran them had them cranked. It made me very uncomfortable.

When I started my performing career ( in the 1960's) we didn't use no stinkin' monitors.

 

[Craig Stone]

Re: pre-setting side-wash content....

When I started my performing career ( in the 1960's) we didn't use no stinkin' monitors.

We didn't use any either, in 1980 when I started playing clubs. I could probably still do a show without monitors. I've been in situations where the wedges went silent mid song. I could still hear the FOH without much difficulty.

When I went from clubs to large stages it was a bit of a shock and pretty unsettling hearing myself so well. I was already nervous playing for larger audiences. I didn't need any additional help. I hadn't physically felt the music like that before, either. Now, I use in-ears for everything when I can, and when I can't I'm not bothered much by anything but feedback.

 

[Jay Barracato]

Re: pre-setting side-wash content....

Speaking as a performer, I find side-washes to be more "natural" sounding than a bunch of wedges. Of course, it depends on the stage environs. In this case there's a Clearspan roof over the stage and the wedges will tend to bounce around more than the cross-firing side monitors. I should have said "minus bass and drums" instead of bass and drums at a lower level.

The keys/synth I feel will spread nicely out of the sides (or I could give him a keyboard amp, but the two keyboards are set up on different sides of the stage instead of together.....one player, two positions) and I'd give the lead instruments (guitar, sax) equal priority to the vocal, maybe a tad less.

And this is "smooth jazz" rather than the more traditional. Think half-way to R & B with some funk in the mixture. Nicely arranged, but a bit different than the "natural" sound of a standard jazz combo.

Thanks all for the replies. Very much appreciated.

DR

I just did one of these at the club(4 people, singer/bassist with wireless stage center, sax with wireless roaming, SL drums, SR piano), and I started with 4 wedges across the front and a dedicated piano wedge. The artist started by turning in the two outside wedges,so I mixed them like sidefills, less piano SR more piano SL and the opposite for the drums, solid sax and bass in both and vocals the strongest. It seemed the band was keying on the vocals for most of their timing cues.

By their request, I had only placed mics on the kick and a single overhead on the drums, and ended up not using either except for what was clearly a drum solo. I also discovered (odd for a band lead by a bassist) that they absolutely detested any low end at all. The FOH subs ended up turned way down, the low cut on the piano mics engaged plus a generous high pass on the board. I even ended up with a 125 hz high pass on the bass. At that point I pulled out a couple of eq tricks to give the bass its own character so it could stand out in the mix without the low end.

Anyways, I think of using the sidefills to help a band that is used to listening to each other with close physical proximity spread out on a larger stage. Then the wedges are used to add specific needs at each playing position.