For those of you who have experience with both units, which would you choose for a FOH for a regional provider with an ML3000 desk? Both of these units are about the same price......both seem to be a better value than a "pair" of dbx 1046's
Presonus ACP88 versus KT Squareone Dynamics
- Thread starter Brandon Blakeney
- Start date
Re: Presonus ACP88 versus KT Squareone Dynamics
Presonus ACP88 is a poor quality unit sonically. In short, the gate control is very limited and they click when opening. The Compressors are very touchy and if you see more than 3db of compression on the meters its like taking the claw end of a hammer to a waveform.
The Klark unit is better but not by much. Klunky controls again and you've either got a compressor OR gate, not both.
I feel like you're asking this question because you want to purchase something that traveling engineers will appreciate. In that case, get something respectable that everyone is familiar with. All of the following can be had affordably used in great condition:
Drawmer DS404 Quad Gate
Drawmer DL441 Quad Comp
BSS DPR-504 Quad Gate
BSS DPR-404 Quad Comp
Hope this helps.
Presonus ACP88 is a poor quality unit sonically. In short, the gate control is very limited and they click when opening. The Compressors are very touchy and if you see more than 3db of compression on the meters its like taking the claw end of a hammer to a waveform.
The Klark unit is better but not by much. Klunky controls again and you've either got a compressor OR gate, not both.
I feel like you're asking this question because you want to purchase something that traveling engineers will appreciate. In that case, get something respectable that everyone is familiar with. All of the following can be had affordably used in great condition:
Drawmer DS404 Quad Gate
Drawmer DL441 Quad Comp
BSS DPR-504 Quad Gate
BSS DPR-404 Quad Comp
Hope this helps.
Re: Presonus ACP88 versus KT Squareone Dynamics
Hi Brandon,
I agree with Drew about getting better units to go with your A&H board even if you are just using them yourself. I am not a fan of the Squareone and I still own the ACP88 though I never use it anymore. It is better than no compressor or gate when one is really needed and has many cool features but really good analog compressors and gates are so cheap on eBay and craigslist now that I would recommend buying something else. Even if you are buying new I would rather see less channels of better quality. A really good VCA compressor needs to have attack and release times (IMHO) which the DBX 1046 does not. The DBX 1066 is wonderful sounding and very fine tuneable though. A really good gate needs to have sidechain hi and low pass filters or a parametric filter to get rid of any false triggering. You have the insert points on the Presonus but you are talking extra expense and rack space for some type of EQ to really make the gates work smoothly and even then they are going to click a little. A depth control would help. Also a HOLD time to go with attack and release is a plus. It is not like you are using this with an entry level board so I would not get hung up on saving rack space. Some other gates to consider if you are buying used are the Aphex 612 or 622. Lots of studios dump them when they go digital.
Good luck!
Eric
Hi Brandon,
I agree with Drew about getting better units to go with your A&H board even if you are just using them yourself. I am not a fan of the Squareone and I still own the ACP88 though I never use it anymore. It is better than no compressor or gate when one is really needed and has many cool features but really good analog compressors and gates are so cheap on eBay and craigslist now that I would recommend buying something else. Even if you are buying new I would rather see less channels of better quality. A really good VCA compressor needs to have attack and release times (IMHO) which the DBX 1046 does not. The DBX 1066 is wonderful sounding and very fine tuneable though. A really good gate needs to have sidechain hi and low pass filters or a parametric filter to get rid of any false triggering. You have the insert points on the Presonus but you are talking extra expense and rack space for some type of EQ to really make the gates work smoothly and even then they are going to click a little. A depth control would help. Also a HOLD time to go with attack and release is a plus. It is not like you are using this with an entry level board so I would not get hung up on saving rack space. Some other gates to consider if you are buying used are the Aphex 612 or 622. Lots of studios dump them when they go digital.
Good luck!
Eric
Re: Presonus ACP88 versus KT Squareone Dynamics
What Drew said. I would opt to use no dynamics before I used the ACP88 or Square One.
What Drew said. I would opt to use no dynamics before I used the ACP88 or Square One.
Re: Presonus ACP88 versus KT Squareone Dynamics
I almost agree with this one. I only used my unit for "Damage Control" with my "C" rig and it was very easy to almost do more damage than control. This reminds me to put it up for sale on eBay.
I almost agree with this one. I only used my unit for "Damage Control" with my "C" rig and it was very easy to almost do more damage than control. This reminds me to put it up for sale on eBay.
Re: Presonus ACP88 versus KT Squareone Dynamics
Are you looking at one of these units to replace the comps you already have (if so, what do you already have?), are you setting up a FOH rack from scratch or do you already own both and are just looking for a popular opinion? Given the choice when buying from scratch, I too would probably look at something from Drawmer or BSS, assuming that buying used is acceptable for your purposes.
I do agree that the ACP is less then ideal sonically, but I'm not sure what is happening to those who say that it does more harm then good or that it's easier to do damage then to get a useable result out of it. I'd rather have the ACP instead of nothing; for general light compression (few dB here and there) to tighten things up, it does a serviceable job. I mixed an analog gig last month (Midas Venice w/ an ACP88 and a Rane C4 for 12 channels of comps) and I honestly didn't think the C4 was a whole lot better then the ACP88, in the context of that gig and that system. My biggest complaint honestly was that the console was setup on the FOH rack and the the comps were in the bottom of the rack, so I literally had to get down on hands and knees to see or operate the controls in the dark.... absolutely ridiculous to have to do that during a gig every-time you want to make a slight change.
To give an answer to your actual question, I'd probably pick the ACP88 simply because I'm more familiar with the controls and can use it in the dark without even looking at it...
Are you looking at one of these units to replace the comps you already have (if so, what do you already have?), are you setting up a FOH rack from scratch or do you already own both and are just looking for a popular opinion? Given the choice when buying from scratch, I too would probably look at something from Drawmer or BSS, assuming that buying used is acceptable for your purposes.
I do agree that the ACP is less then ideal sonically, but I'm not sure what is happening to those who say that it does more harm then good or that it's easier to do damage then to get a useable result out of it. I'd rather have the ACP instead of nothing; for general light compression (few dB here and there) to tighten things up, it does a serviceable job. I mixed an analog gig last month (Midas Venice w/ an ACP88 and a Rane C4 for 12 channels of comps) and I honestly didn't think the C4 was a whole lot better then the ACP88, in the context of that gig and that system. My biggest complaint honestly was that the console was setup on the FOH rack and the the comps were in the bottom of the rack, so I literally had to get down on hands and knees to see or operate the controls in the dark.... absolutely ridiculous to have to do that during a gig every-time you want to make a slight change.
To give an answer to your actual question, I'd probably pick the ACP88 simply because I'm more familiar with the controls and can use it in the dark without even looking at it...
Re: Presonus ACP88 versus KT Squareone Dynamics
What about the Behringers I have now Steve? LOL
I do mostly acts under >20K such as Jerrod Niemann, Randy Houser, Ricochet, Shenandoah, T. Graham Brown, etc..... nobody has refused to use them but they usually would rather have something else...currently all of my EQ is dbx and my effects are Lexicon...these comps are the only behringer in my rig and they have lasted about 8 years
What about the Behringers I have now Steve? LOL
I do mostly acts under >20K such as Jerrod Niemann, Randy Houser, Ricochet, Shenandoah, T. Graham Brown, etc..... nobody has refused to use them but they usually would rather have something else...currently all of my EQ is dbx and my effects are Lexicon...these comps are the only behringer in my rig and they have lasted about 8 years
Re: Presonus ACP88 versus KT Squareone Dynamics
I would blame a less than revealing setup and hard to reach controls if the C4 didn't impress compared to the ACP! The C4 is a stellar comp with many options. And the limiter works!
I would blame a less than revealing setup and hard to reach controls if the C4 didn't impress compared to the ACP! The C4 is a stellar comp with many options. And the limiter works!
Re: Presonus ACP88 versus KT Squareone Dynamics
I have some KT DN504/514 to get rid of, I sent you a PM, if you're interested.
I have some KT DN504/514 to get rid of, I sent you a PM, if you're interested.
Re: Presonus ACP88 versus KT Squareone Dynamics
I will agree that the ACP88 gates click quite noisily on opening if you are using them with a fast attack and a high threshold. I really hear it on kick drum if trying to keep snare out. Lack of ability to make the gate frequency specific has made it seem very hard for me to use it effectively on drums. Seems ok for light compression.
I will agree that the ACP88 gates click quite noisily on opening if you are using them with a fast attack and a high threshold. I really hear it on kick drum if trying to keep snare out. Lack of ability to make the gate frequency specific has made it seem very hard for me to use it effectively on drums. Seems ok for light compression.
Re: Presonus ACP88 versus KT Squareone Dynamics
A 15 band in the sidechain filter works wonders on the ACP88. However what you want are the Rane C4 and G4.
A 15 band in the sidechain filter works wonders on the ACP88. However what you want are the Rane C4 and G4.
Re: Presonus ACP88 versus KT Squareone Dynamics
I'm sure it does. We have a couple spare old graphics laying around. I'll have to give it a try sometime.
I'm sure it does. We have a couple spare old graphics laying around. I'll have to give it a try sometime.
Re: Presonus ACP88 versus KT Squareone Dynamics
John,
I agree 100%, that's why I added the caveat of (*in the context of that gig and that system*). The C4 is a unit that I enjoy seeing in a rig for sure, easy to use (when located properly in the rack) but depending on the context of the gig, I'm not sure it's worth twice the price of an ACP88. The limiter does work well, but if you need a gate, you've got to get another separate unit. A C4 paired with a BSS DPR-504 is a powerful combo, but it'll blow the original budget out of the water and for only half the channel count.
I'm not so sure that I'd be in a huge rush to replace the Behringer Comps with either of the units the OP mentioned, as long as no one is currently complaining about them. I'd maybe hold off until you can afford to kick it up to the next level, or until you find a good deal on some used pieces.
Steve.
John,
I agree 100%, that's why I added the caveat of (*in the context of that gig and that system*). The C4 is a unit that I enjoy seeing in a rig for sure, easy to use (when located properly in the rack) but depending on the context of the gig, I'm not sure it's worth twice the price of an ACP88. The limiter does work well, but if you need a gate, you've got to get another separate unit. A C4 paired with a BSS DPR-504 is a powerful combo, but it'll blow the original budget out of the water and for only half the channel count.
I'm not so sure that I'd be in a huge rush to replace the Behringer Comps with either of the units the OP mentioned, as long as no one is currently complaining about them. I'd maybe hold off until you can afford to kick it up to the next level, or until you find a good deal on some used pieces.
Steve.