pricing for a rig rental

F

Frank Dwyer

Freshman
Dec 29, 2011
30
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0
I am doing a proposal to install a rig for 10 shows. One set at the beginning of the series and one strike at the end, run of show w/ 4 guys, I have to load the band in and out.

Sound: ( 6 ) 4888 per side ( 10 )Crown MA12000 w/ ( 2 ) dbx 4800, analog 48 channel FOH and monitor, Drawmer, DBX, Klark, Yamaha SPX 2000, BSS, CD/TD player FX rack, (10) bi-amp VRX monitors w/ klark eq's ( 6 ) JBL custom shop DBL. 18's ( 1 ) applied 250amp pd ( 2 ) CM motors

Lighting : 60K par64 w/ 2.4K Applied dimmer rack ( 10 ) Applied 10' drop down truss ( 4 ) CM motors ( 1 ) console ( i don't know yet) all necessary soco and cams

Backline: standard drum kit, fender, svt, marshall, PC-88 ect.

12hr. round trip some shows back to back ( hotel ) All gear in very good condition.

My question is, how much would you charge on a per show per show basis.


Thanks, Frank Dwyer
 
Re: pricing for a rig rental

Frank Dwyer said:
I am doing a proposal to install a rig for 10 shows. One set at the beginning of the series and one strike at the end, run of show w/ 4 guys, I have to load the band in and out.

Sound: ( 6 ) 4888 per side ( 10 )Crown MA12000 w/ ( 2 ) dbx 4800, analog 48 channel FOH and monitor, Drawmer, DBX, Klark, Yamaha SPX 2000, BSS, CD/TD player FX rack, (10) bi-amp VRX monitors w/ klark eq's ( 6 ) JBL custom shop DBL. 18's ( 1 ) applied 250amp pd ( 2 ) CM motors

Lighting : 60K par64 w/ 2.4K Applied dimmer rack ( 10 ) Applied 10' drop down truss ( 4 ) CM motors ( 1 ) console ( i don't know yet) all necessary soco and cams

Backline: standard drum kit, fender, svt, marshall, PC-88 ect.

12hr. round trip some shows back to back ( hotel ) All gear in very good condition.

My question is, how much would you charge on a per show per show basis.


Thanks, Frank Dwyer
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This wouldn't be Frank Dwyer from Stagecraft Audio would it?
 
Re: pricing for a rig rental

In these situations I usually charge full price including set up, tear down, mileage etc for the first show and then discount the remaining shows according to what has to be done. I figure a dry rental package deal for the other days. Add engineer(s), hotel rooms or travel time, food, security if not provided, and any other expenses or services needed for you to do the job.
 
Re: pricing for a rig rental

Frank, the first and last day are priced as a one off,
1% of gear total cost, expenses, profit and labor. (My expenses usually includes a pre-calculated, fixed price to cover phone/office, storage/warehouse, insurance, etc., and then add transportation, and other hard costs such as food and lodging.) (My profit is sometimes just 2% or more on gear, or an arbitrary amount to show them that I would like to make money.)
The middle days I would take out all but the hard expenses, and possibly some of the gear, but labor is never discounted. An example would be charging for 4-5 days on a week, or 6-7 days for the gear on the ten day show.

Regards, Jack
 
Re: pricing for a rig rental

How can you afford to do shows at 1% of total gear cost? Yikes. My one off rates for gear are 5% minimum. You haven't said how long of a time this gear is going to be tied up. Is it 10 days, or 3 months? Assuming it's not an extended period, the gear rental I'd be quoting would be about 10% of the gear, plus labor and expenses. Since it's a single set, I price as I would for an extended rental.
 
Re: pricing for a rig rental

Brian jojade said:
How can you afford to do shows at 1% of total gear cost? Yikes. My one off rates for gear are 5% minimum. You haven't said how long of a time this gear is going to be tied up. Is it 10 days, or 3 months? Assuming it's not an extended period, the gear rental I'd be quoting would be about 10% of the gear, plus labor and expenses. Since it's a single set, I price as I would for an extended rental.
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+1 on the 5%. I did notice he had the arbitrary profit rate in there at least. 5% of cost is my rate and pretty much the going retail dry rental rate of most of the people I have delt with in Atlanta as well except for mixing consoles. It is almost not possible to make a profit on large format consoles because the rental price is so low here but the plus side is that I can bid a job with almost any console as long as I check the availability for the date first.
 
Re: pricing for a rig rental

I should of specified that it is a 4 month series, with some shows back to back. And I would say around $250,000 - $300,000K worth of gear. $8500 per show ? what do you think.


Thanks, Frank



Eric Cagle said:
+1 on the 5%. I did notice he had the arbitrary profit rate in there at least. 5% of cost is my rate and pretty much the going retail dry rental rate of most of the people I have delt with in Atlanta as well except for mixing consoles. It is almost not possible to make a profit on large format consoles because the rental price is so low here but the plus side is that I can bid a job with almost any console as long as I check the availability for the date first.
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Re: pricing for a rig rental

Frank Dwyer said:
I should of specified that it is a 4 month series, with some shows back to back. And I would say around $250,000 - $300,000K worth of gear. $8500 per show ? what do you think.


Thanks, Frank
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Frank -

Depends on your market entirely. That's a bit high for central and southern VA if it is a bulk buy, but in Metro DC it may fly, especially as you are including backline and crew for the artist, besides Sound & Lights. Those are often separate contracts. And the 12hrs of driving (if in a truck) could easy add 1K on top of any invoice, especially when you consider the extra days and travel pay for your guys.

Jason
 
Re: pricing for a rig rental

Frank Dwyer said:
I should of specified that it is a 4 month series, with some shows back to back. And I would say around $250,000 - $300,000K worth of gear. $8500 per show ? what do you think.


Thanks, Frank
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Frank,

I probably do not know much about rental business in the States, but over here, $8,500 per show in a 4 month series with some shows back to back, the figure is just an illusion.
Do not get me wrong. I'd really like providers to charge that much.
.
.
About 5% ... In my world, lampies sometimes reach that, sound providers ... ummm ... never.
It might be easier with cheaper gear, but not with Class-A equipment.
.
With utmost respect
 
Re: pricing for a rig rental

Hi Frank,
Let me first address the 5% of cost part in response to Jack and Ales. I am in the 50-100K worth of equipment and lower range per rig and I quote from my own inventory and dry rentals at that level from others. I did not even think about the possible difference in that % figure on a 250-300K system because I have to rent complete or refer at that level and have never stopped to do the math. Now that I pulled out a calculator a 2% figure at that level doesn't seem to be so far off and strange.

That being said the quotes resulting in jobs have varied wildly in the last few years depending on the season, the area, and how hungry everybody is. Two of the last national shows just a month or so apart I have worked with another company are examples of this. Not quite a 4888 array but a 3 over 4 trap rig, 56 Midas FOH, 48 Soundcraft Monitor, Klark, JBL, power distro, trussing, par64, etc. etc. Both shows similar backline provided by us. One show local to me 1 act and an opener. The other show 6 hours away neighboring state 2 days and 10 bands (2 of them nationals) all for $1500 less and all of us thankful at that time to have it. Honestly the farther I get away from Atlanta the lower the budgets generally are.

We are all just offering suggestions and guides because the markets vary so much from area to area. Some other important factors are: 1) Do they have a budget? 2)Do you have the gig or are you having to enter a competitive bid? 3)If competing what are your competitors offering? Price is not the only factor. Can they actually do the job well? Can you do it better? Do you have a relationship with the client? 4) Do they have an amount they are expecting to pay? An example is "We did it last year and it cost us x amount."

Things to consider on your part: 1)Is it profitable and worth your time at x amount? 2)Is x amount worth committing the rig for 4 months? 3) Where is the rig at in your business plan for this year? I ask this because I am in the same situation with a concert series this year and could not tie up any of my current systems and am having to purchase a new mid/high system just for it. 4)A nice plus is much less wear and tear than 10 shows with 10 set ups and 10 strikes.

Your particular market is not my niche but from the few times I have worked in it on the provider side your figure doesn't seem to be extremely out of line for my area. I will try to make a few calls but I can't say it will apply at all to where you are. I wish I or someone could give you the Magic number but without knowing the answers to most of the things that have been mentioned I am going to have to quote Ivan,"It Depends."

Let us know how it turns out!
Eric
 
Re: pricing for a rig rental

RE: 5%

Everybody reading this should be flocking to ATL and Wausau where you can pay off a sound system in 20 shows.
 
Re: pricing for a rig rental

Jack Arnott said:
RE: 5%

Everybody reading this should be flocking to ATL and Wausau where you can pay off a sound system in 20 shows.
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It depends on the particualr market segment you are in. Corporate shows typically (or at least used to be) 10% of gear PLUS all other expenses-labor-transport etc.

But the "normal" rental market (that most of the people are in) is much less. I never got near 5% (and that would even be throwing in all other expenses for FREE.

With a 100K rig (which is not a large rig-when you consider EVERYTHING-cables-trunks-racks and all the other tidbits) and 5%, that would be 5K for the gear plus labor/transport. That could easily add another 1-2K (or more-depending on rates). I never saw that.

My experience (and yes everybodies is different) was around 1-2% of gear worth-including labor.

Now that would be for a full show. Piece rental is a different animal. If somebody just wants an amp-cabinet or such, you can get closer to the 5-10% mark.

Now my figures/guess-ta-mates are based on my experience and I have been out of the rental market for more than a decade-so things may have changed.

If I could have gotten 5% + labor-I probably would not have gotten out of the rental business-but I got tired of not making any money-buying new gear to get to a new level and not gettting any more money. Plus the physical toll was wearing on me.
 
Re: pricing for a rig rental

Jack Arnott said:
RE: 5%

Everybody reading this should be flocking to ATL and Wausau where you can pay off a sound system in 20 shows.
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I already stood corrected on that figure as you go up the food chain. I think we determined in the Versarray thread that my market is considered a JV topic, even with a VCA console, so I really should have given it a little more thought and research before I posted the 5% figure. I made a couple of calls and checked the net for advertised pricing and confirmed an ADVERTISED rate of well under 2% of list for a 4888. One of my buddies quoted me around 1% for a 4887 and told me he could do a little better in the slow season and that price included a tech. Consoles are advertised even lower. Here is a copy and paste right off of a web site:

Digital Console Rental Rates

Daily Rate Weekly Rate
Yamaha M7CL-48 $200 $600
Yamaha LS9-32 $125 $375
Avid SC48 $200 $600

For my bread and butter I target a very specific market that has sometimes taken me years to even get a chance to bid on. The 5% of cost, which I use actual cost as my business guideline, is where I start for a one off. Do I get it? Often yes. Do I work for less? More often yes. Do I work for less if it is more than one event even with seperate set and strikes? Always yes.

On an interesting JV note the bottom of the food chain is even lower. I was at a show last night where the drummer rolled in with a bought new by him 4 box (2 a side) active Apogee APL-220 rig with 2 of the APL-12 powered dual 18" subs in his trailer. Yamaha MG24 console, some decent outboard gear, and Ashly EQ's on the monitors. All in like new condition. Being somewhat of an Apogee fan I struck up a conversation and asked if he ever rented out that system. He told me "Sure, I get $150-$300 per night depending on the gig." I got his card.
 
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Re: pricing for a rig rental

Well they ok'ed the $8500, and it's not going to tie up my regular gear for the season. Nothing good is easy, and I know it's going to be a lot of work (quit your whining frank) also, I always get roped into doing way more that is not in the contract. I know it's a lot of money, but why don't ever have any money ?
 
Re: pricing for a rig rental

Frank Dwyer said:
Well they ok'ed the $8500, and it's not going to tie up my regular gear for the season. Nothing good is easy, and I know it's going to be a lot of work (quit your whining frank) also, I always get roped into doing way more that is not in the contract. I know it's a lot of money, but why don't ever have any money ?
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Then what are you talking to us for? Jesus Christ, man, go buy that Ferrari! Don't ever let that client talk to another provider!
 
Re: pricing for a rig rental

Bennett Prescott said:
Then what are you talking to us for? Jesus Christ, man, go buy that Ferrari! Don't ever let that client talk to another provider!
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Hey Bennett, I never like to air prices but I had to make sure that I was in the ball park and gave a fair price. I need to buy a new box truck first. The client got prices, and he has been in the biz for a long time, so I guess I came in on or below the other providers, also I threw in (2 )10K projectors ( 2 ) 9x12, switcher and 3 chip camera.



Does anyone know a provider for digital consoles in NY or CT.
 
Re: pricing for a rig rental

Frank Dwyer said:
Well they ok'ed the $8500, and it's not going to tie up my regular gear for the season. Nothing good is easy, and I know it's going to be a lot of work (quit your whining frank) also, I always get roped into doing way more that is not in the contract. I know it's a lot of money, but why don't ever have any money ?
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Excellent Frank! Maybe after expenses, depreciation, insurance, any payments on the eqipment, the box truck purchase to get the gear to the site, etc. etc. you can take a small check for yourself for the quarter.
 
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