Pride versus providing a service

Lisa Lane-Collins

Lisa Lane-Collins

Sophomore
Dec 9, 2012
270
0
16
Adelaide, Australia
Today I got into an argument with the talent. They wanted a simple thing but every aspect of how they presented their request rubbed me up the wrong way and so instead of just saying yes and making the change I got defensive/argumentative.

With hindsight, I think I responded so poorly because I felt like this performer was suggesting/assuming I'm no good at what I do and or inexperienced... problem is I work in a service industry and Want to be a tech who is there to support the musician, not one who can't be approached with simple requests (even if they are made in a douchebag-ey way)

So, how do you do it? How do you keep your cool when your client pushes your buttons?
 
Re: Pride versus providing a service

Lisa Lane-Collins said:
Today I got into an argument with the talent. They wanted a simple thing but every aspect of how they presented their request rubbed me up the wrong way and so instead of just saying yes and making the change I got defensive/argumentative.

With hindsight, I think I responded so poorly because I felt like this performer was suggesting/assuming I'm no good at what I do and or inexperienced... problem is I work in a service industry and Want to be a tech who is there to support the musician, not one who can't be approached with simple requests (even if they are made in a douchebag-ey way)

So, how do you do it? How do you keep your cool when your client pushes your buttons?
Click to expand...

First thing....recognize that they are YOUR buttons! It's like being offended..100% on the receiver.
 
Re: Pride versus providing a service

Sucking it up is always tough. You need to recognize your buttons are being pushed before it gets out of hand. (easier said than done).

Try taking a deep breath, then rephrasing their suggestion, and if there is some additional detail you can add, or an alternate that would work, use that to turn the tables without the argument. (sometimes it works - helps reinforce the fact that you ARE knowledgeable)

Sometimes you have to close your eyes and tend to business.

None of this is easy when your buttons are pushed. But John has it: they are YOUR buttons.
 
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Re: Pride versus providing a service

Some people will just want to come in and do it their way - no matter how cool your way is or how long to set it up.

It happens. As I get older it gets easier to shrug it off. If nothing else I got to practice setting it up my way.
 
Re: Pride versus providing a service

I don't care for winning/asserting my knowledge at this point, I just want to get out of that argument mindset before the argument happens, I'm worried that I'll forget This time, next time, in the heat of the moment and follow the same lousy path.

The deep breath and reiterating the suggestion, I'll try that. I mean I Hope I'll try that, is there no way to practice this sort of thing?!!
 
Re: Pride versus providing a service

Lisa, you asking the question is confirmation that you get it. It's hard sometimes, particularly when the performer or someone associated with the performer gets in the way of you doing your best for that performer.
If you feel there is an issue to be addressed and nothing that is likely to be resolved there and then, do it after the show.
Explain why he or she made it difficult for you and how they can improve their communication with you in the future. Before you do that, give them the chance to address any grievance of their own.
If this doesn't work out, you might consider giving them the finger and a big fat FO if you don't really need their cooperation in the future.
 
Re: Pride versus providing a service

Hello

There is this old saying - "customer is always right."

My version - " Customer is NOT always right - but he/she is always a customer."

As long it does not come to your dreams your´re fine.


Nuuska
 
Re: Pride versus providing a service

Lisa Lane-Collins said:
I don't care for winning/asserting my knowledge at this point, I just want to get out of that argument mindset before the argument happens, I'm worried that I'll forget This time, next time, in the heat of the moment and follow the same lousy path.

The deep breath and reiterating the suggestion, I'll try that. I mean I Hope I'll try that, is there no way to practice this sort of thing?!!
Click to expand...

Get married :lol:
 
Re: Pride versus providing a service

I recently had a very long gig. 28 of 40 hours spent mixing. A national headliner at the end of that timespan.

The vocalist walked in, and heard with their eyes, and immediately demanded that I rearrange monitors. Already being at the end of my leash, I responded with a very quick and decisive "No, these are the better monitor anyway, you want these and you will be happier." The artist was a bit shocked to not get what they wanted, spent the rest of the evening asking instead of demanding.

I was wrong in the way I responded. But, the artist realized that I knew what I was talking about and had their best interest in mind.

All of this could have been remedied with a proper rider. But hey, who needs that?
 
Re: Pride versus providing a service

Well, I try not to take things personally. Most of the time it's just miscommunication/ignorance/etc. Now, if they are actually being abusive, try and shrug it off until later after the show, or until you are on the phone with them regarding hiring you - those times are when you have the most ability to barter your skills for their respect. It's just good business… :twisted:

I'd LIKE to use this particular formula for my charges to any particular client:

C = E+(H*P/2)
Where C is the charge to client, E is the charge for the event regardless of customer, H is my hourly rate and P is the Pain Index for the client and gig, which ranges from -5 to +5.

But that's just a dream...
 
Re: Pride versus providing a service

Max Warasila said:
Well, I try not to take things personally. Most of the time it's just miscommunication/ignorance/etc. Now, if they are actually being abusive, try and shrug it off until later after the show, or until you are on the phone with them regarding hiring you - those times are when you have the most ability to barter your skills for their respect. It's just good business… :twisted:

I'd LIKE to use this particular formula for my charges to any particular client:

C = E+(H*P/2)
Where C is the charge to client, E is the charge for the event regardless of customer, H is my hourly rate and P is the Pain Index for the client and gig, which ranges from -5 to +5.

But that's just a dream...
Click to expand...

It's not a dream, Max. Some things require a PITA Adjustment Factor. As in your example, it is a spectrum. In our shop it's based on physical & practical aspects (dock space, long push, client history of Changing Mind Syndrome) and sometimes on other factors clients may wittingly or unwittingly create for our crew, for which we pay extra compensation. Clients want things their way, but that has a price tag if it deviates from traditional, proven ways of doing things. Eventually, though, you quit thinking of these things as a pain.... you begin to think of ways for them to create revenue.

}story{
About 15 years ago a production manager from an AV shop schooled me - I went to him with what I thought was a silly client request and he nicely told me "clients don't request silly shit, clients give us the opportunity to add another line item to their invoice." }story{

The flip side is using the Adjustment Factor to discount a client for things like quick pay/advance pay or client history of repeat business and professional working conditions.
 
Re: Pride versus providing a service

Tim McCulloch said:
It's not a dream, Max. Some things require a PITA Adjustment Factor. As in your example, it is a spectrum. In our shop it's based on physical & practical aspects (dock space, long push, client history of Changing Mind Syndrome) and sometimes on other factors clients may wittingly or unwittingly create for our crew, for which we pay extra compensation. Clients want things their way, but that has a price tag if it deviates from traditional, proven ways of doing things. Eventually, though, you quit thinking of these things as a pain.... you begin to think of ways for them to create revenue.

}story{
About 15 years ago a production manager from an AV shop schooled me - I went to him with what I thought was a silly client request and he nicely told me "clients don't request silly shit, clients give us the opportunity to add another line item to their invoice." }story{

The flip side is using the Adjustment Factor to discount a client for things like quick pay/advance pay or client history of repeat business and professional working conditions.
Click to expand...

This.

In general, there's no such thing as "can't be done", there's only "expensive".

And companies have also been known to provide "courtesy bids" to clients they don't want to work with. Essentially, a price intended to be too high for the client to want to pay, calculated to be high enough to cover the hassle of actually getting the job.
 
Re: Pride versus providing a service

Lisa Lane-Collins said:
So, how do you do it? How do you keep your cool when your client pushes your buttons?
Click to expand...

You know Lisa, one of the main requirements for being a successful sound engineer for a LONG TIME is being laid back. Disconnect those buttons so when someone pushes them they go nowhere.

You have already told us what those buttons are, that means YOU know. Great first step! "I felt like this performer was suggesting/assuming I'm no good at what I do and or inexperienced..." The best part of that sentence is "I felt". This tells me that whatever the reality is, this is how you perceive it to be.

"I'm no good at what I do". Is that true? I don't think that is the case but somewhere in your concept of self you must think that. I believe you are most likely very good at what you do but are still learning. Don't confuse the still learning part with not being good. I am still learning and I have been doing this for over thirty years and I am VERY good at what I do. That brings us to the other part of that button that was pushed: "and or inexperienced... ".

The only way you can get experience is to get experience. There will come a time when you realize how good you really are on the scale of "good enough" and how much experience you really have. Since this is a concept of self thing we are talking about, no one can tell you when that will happen. I can say from my outside view of things that you are doing a lot of shows so your experience level is going up fast.

Dealing with the occasional douchebag artist is part of the job. If they have a point, learn from it. You might gain a new perspective for your toolbox. If they don't, just consider the source and don't let it bother you. The bottom line is its not what others think of you but rather what "you think of you" that causes buttons to be there in the first place. Don't be so hard on yourself. Enjoy the journey!

Eric
 
Re: Pride versus providing a service

Here's how I think about it: getting upset will not get me home any sooner. It doesn't matter whether it's a piece of gear or a person; patience and understanding go a long way to resolving issues.

The customer isn't always right, but they need to know that you care about what they are trying to communicate to their audience, and that you are willing to work towards a solution to their problem.

Alford Media Services has a good, little write-up about it.
 
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