Question about basses

Rich Syder

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Jun 30, 2021
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Hi all! I just signed up and I'm a long time bass player. Over on TalkBass the prevailing theory is that the FOH engineer nearly demand a P or a J bass and always a clean DI regardless of the amp used onstage. That's the "myth", but I think reality is more like FOH is happy to see a P bass and would prefer to have a clean DI signal because it's quick and easy to get a good sound, and keep the pedal tap dance to a minimum. There's a lot of leveling of synth patches, guitar patches, etc going on, it's nice to have a solid bass tone with no fuss. The tonal nuances that bass players obsess over really don't matter outside of the studio.

Any things you would like to see / not see when the bassist shows up?
 
I think people on BassTalk may be confusing a record producer with a live audio engineer. The live mixer's job is to amplify the performance to the larger audience. If the mixer thinks there is a problem with the players' style or choice of instrument or amp its time for a conversation at rehearsal not a demand that the player fit into the mixer window of acceptability.
 
Welcome Rich! As a sound person I am happy when the Bass Player and all the rest of the band shows up. What they use on the stage is none of my business. I like to mic the bass rig and have a DI from the head or a basic one between the guitar/rig as a backup or to blend with the players mic'ed system. Some bands use all modelers on stage then I work with them to be sure the FOH sounds the way the want. I can't fathom any competent working sound engineer who could have any say in what is used on stage unless they are asked for a point of view. I see it as it's my job to deal with what ever is on stage and make it sound as good as possible. Have some fun and enjoy your rig. Doug
 
Like Riley and Doug, I really couldn't care less what you choose to use as your instrument. I'm there to translate the sound of the band on the stage to the larger audience. So as a musician, use whatever you like to put on a good show.

As far as things that can make the day go more smoothly, the biggest one for me is good, consistent arrangements. Make things sound good in the rehearsal room - if the bass, the kick, and the synths are all fighting for the same chunk of low frequency space, it's pretty easy to end up with a muddy mix. Beyond that, a positive attitude (not a "rockstar" attitude) and knowing what you need on stage (including what you need in your monitor - note I said need, not want. In small venues, it's not uncommon for the full mix in the monitor wash to obliterate the FoH mix) go a long way.

If you want to talk gear and signal, that's pretty far down on the list of what matters. In general, I usually take a direct feed from the bass (either via a DI or from an output on the head) and don't mic the amp (if the cabinet has a tweeter, micing the amp isn't usually going to sound quite the same as what's in the room anyway). That, combined with the fact that I've usually got rather more LF capability in the PA than a bass amp does, means that you don't need a big amp of your own. So feel free to optimize your sound for what goes into the PA feed and skip the amp unless you're playing small clubs.
 
I think it's the typical way things go on message boards, one bassist had a sound engineer (trying to break the habit of saying "guy") suggest a DI and they get offended, hence, all FOH sucks. They can be grumpy a lot of times. My personal approach is that I've cut out most of the pedals that I used to use. I still have a compressor, but it's more of the tone enhancement type even though bass will be compressed at the board. And probably high passed. I tend to used passive basses, because cutting treble isn't going to affect what is hitting the board. If I am using active, I try not to knob twist much. The goal is to not suddenly send an extra 15db of bass. I have a killer DI, a Noble Tube DI that has a fixed volume to house, the volume knob on the DI just affects the 1/4" out that may be going to an amp on stage that I use for monitoring, depending on the situation. Anyways, my intent is to make it easy, set and forget for the rest of the gig. Nobody notices the bass player. Heh.
 
Having been in a pretty busy touring band doing theatres (with our own PA) and Festivals of all sizes, AND being a sound op in a similar context, I have never been told by an engineer my bass is unacceptable, because I play quite a few, and pick them for the job in hand. In the tribute band I play a Fender American Jazz 5str, and it matches the music we do - but I absolutely hate the sound of the guitar. For every other music job I will play much nicer sounding basses - especially for the pop and jazz gigs. Also - if an engineer I did not know told me he didn't like the sound, he'd get a short response - probably two words. When I am doing sound, I often get sources that really don't sound very nice, in my opinion - but it's my job to do my best with whatever they give me. I did have a guy once criticise my playing because I tend to play most stuff up around frets 5-8ish, and use the bottom B a lot. This is tonally not as good as say the bottom F on the E string when I play it on the B, higher up - and one guy told me I should change. I smiled politely and said, thanks for the advice, but I'm happy thanks! As it happens, I'm totally happy with a straight DI going to the PA, My particular sound has no pedals or processing at all - maybe a bit of compression on the biggest rig - with 8 x10" speakers.

They get carried away a bit on Talkbass - clearly FOH engineers can demand what they like - but some seem to forget they are there to service the performers. Our job, doing sound, is to get the very best out of what we are presented with. It is not to request changes in what or how the performers do things?
 
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If I were the "band engineer", I'd start with 2 DIs and a mic on the rig. First DI is right off the bass (or the wireless receiver), the second after any stop-boxes or processing chain. Between those 2 I can pick either/or, blend, or use the mic... or some other combination thereof. If I can't get a usable signal from them, the problems are not in my input chain...

The biggest impact a player has at FOH is stage SPL and the tonality of that. Some room shapes and sizes contribute more than others to the 'fun' with their standing waves and room modes - so what might have been a fairly balanced tonality across the bass scale yesterday may well be all funked up today. To the extent the player can adjust without putting a big crimp in performance, I'll ask for accommodation, otherwise I'll have to treat it as an "input I cannot change" and mix up/to/around it.

But tell the bassist to select a different instrument? Naw, that's not what I'm paid to do. Those folks make a lot more money...
 
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I'm a live a live engineer with many years experience. I truly prefer a signal straight out of the bass through a high quality DI box for most music, but I take what I'm given. I will say I have had post eq bass outputs that made it very hard to get what I consider a solid foundation for the mix because of how the bassist like their sound on stage. Usually the bass and kick drum work together in the mix, but with the bass equaled with almost no low frequencies its tough to get the sound right (in my opinion). I just go with what they give me. There is a local bassist I have worked with that will only give me the output of his pedal board. He uses so many effects I don't know how well he plays bass or even if he is playing in the right key! Its really that bad, but that what he wants. It will sound different through the PA from how it sounds as a performer on stage.