Rent the backline / buy the backline ?

Shane Presley

Shane Presley

Senior
Jan 12, 2011
909
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Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.bssproductions.com
Hey guys, I'm just wondering who here provides backline as part of their services and if you could give me any advise as to whether I should rent or buy, and where is that "line" for you.
Currently I rent - I have a guy who meets me in the parking lot of my day job, and we swap the gear into my half ton (where it may or may not rain - I have to come prepared). None of his stuff is cased, soft covers on the guitar amps at best.... I use the gear and usually return using the same process. A lot of loading and unloading, threat of weather all the time etc...

Currently I'm renting about 4 times per year, but could maybe sell to a couple other events the service if I had it in house..
Where I live there isn't alot of rock type requirement, so I don't really need any 4x12 slants and marshall heads... country / blues is the name of the game for me.... so that's why I'm leaning to the vox amps, and fender blues, devilles.... etc...

Since I am a drummer with a decent drum kit (premiere), that's out of the way (until I hit endorsees). So guitar amp(s) / bass amp.
I am looking at a vox a/c30cc and some variant of Ampeg 8x10, or 4x10 and Ampeg head (still deciding on full out tube classic 300, or rack mount tube pro series). So any pits falls, maintenance issues I haven't thought about... My biggest pet peeve is the lack of cases and protection from my current provider, so loading it in my 5 ton amongst my production gear is always a worrisome event.

I'd like to have an amp or two, and a bass amp to offer a small little package - any thoughts , advise good and bad ?
 
Re: Rent the backline / buy the backline ?

I rent.

I need backline constantly, and there is no possible way I could buy everything that every rider needs. The local backline shop is one of the biggest in the country with over $5 million of inventory and they still have to tell me they don't have stuff sometimes.

Plus, backline requires a LOT of maintenance and checking to make sure it is all in 100% working condition, which I don't have time for. The local company always sends spares for all guitar amps and heads, there is pretty much no chance of a failure with anything I get from them.

The price paid is well worth it; I just factor it into my bids. I can usually outfit a whole band (drums, bass rig with 8x10 or dual 4x12, guitar amps, keyboard, all stands and cables) with backline for about $1000.
 
Re: Rent the backline / buy the backline ?

If there's no one in your area doing it professionally (ie: good selection, well maintained, in cases, with full support) then it might be a market to get into. However, no one is more fickle than musicians (except agents who only have a wish list from the musicians), so your pursuit of the most-likely-to-pay-for-itself inventory will never end. I'd been doing half-assed backline up until about 2 years ago when a nice local venue opened and started flying in numerous bigger acts. Since I was lucky enough not to have a serious backline source within 150 miles I got I stuff together and purchased the most popular items. It's been a good part of my business since then.

However, it can take years for some pieces to pay for themselves (and their cases), plus you'll want support cases (workboxes, etc.) to keep all the spares you'll need to take to every gig. In other words, don't buy backline on credit. It's unlikely to ever pay off.

The best guide to what you'll need in your inventory is the riders you've been given. There were also a couple of fantastic threads in the old LAB that are very informative.

Maybe you can buy your buddy some cases. Audiopile is a good source.

One good thing about most backline: Other than keyboards, if you buy the right gear it'll never be outdated. Heck, I had a Peavey Session 400 go out last weekend. First time in 4 years, but still.
 
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Re: Rent the backline / buy the backline ?

Milt Hathaway said:
If there's no one in your area doing it professionally (ie: good selection, well maintained, in cases, with full support) then it might be a market to get into. However, no one is more fickle than musicians (except agents who only have a wish list from the musicians), so your pursuit of the most-likely-to-pay-for-itself inventory will never end.

The best guide to what you'll need in your inventory is the riders you've been given. There were also a couple of fantastic threads in the old LAB that are very informative.
Click to expand...


There isn't a truely dedicated backline company around here (which is ridiculous, Ottawa is the captial of Canada for christ sake). There are a few "straggler" type guys, that have a bit of this and a bit of that, but nobody strictly into backline.

The problem with the riders I'm getting is they do often have boutique type items (hammond organs with leslie ) etc... which I will never have and are hard to source locally.... but as for straight ahead guitar amps and stuff, I agree, I'm going to take the #1 choice on the rider and probably buy that...

Vox / fender, 2x12 amps - ampeg 8x10 w head, and my kit for this year....

next year proabbly a high end yamaha recording, or pearl masters kit... something like that...
Thanks
 
Re: Rent the backline / buy the backline ?

Shane Presley said:
next year proabbly a high end yamaha recording, or pearl masters kit... something like that...
Thanks
Click to expand...

I recommend the Yamaha. Brands mean everything to the RMs and PMs that are approving things, and about 80% of riders I'm seeing right now are asking for some flavor of Yamaha kit. The gigs I've gotten that wanted something else were happy to use it anyway, even those with endorsement deals for other brands. Just replace the kick reso with a blank head and they'll be happy.

FWIW, a fairly recent list of my backline inventory is here: FitzCo Rental Rates - Midland, TX - (432) 684-0861
 
Re: Rent the backline / buy the backline ?

If you're doing mainly country and blues, as opposed to rock, a Vox AC30 wouldn't be my first choice, although it's a great amp.

A Fender Deluxe Reverb should be ideal, although a Twin Reverb might be a safer choice, for the times that you have guys that want to play very loud, since their ears would start bleeding before the Twin would blow up.
 
Re: Rent the backline / buy the backline ?

John Norris said:
If you're doing mainly country and blues, as opposed to rock, a Vox AC30 wouldn't be my first choice, although it's a great amp.
Click to expand...

It is popular among praise & worship bands, and some 'hipster' bands.

John Norris said:
A Fender Deluxe Reverb should be ideal, although a Twin Reverb might be a safer choice, for the times that you have guys that want to play very loud, since their ears would start bleeding before the Twin would blow up.
Click to expand...

The vast majority of Twin Reverb requests I see are because it can play as loud as needed very cleanly, and the guitarists requesting it are carrying whatever pedals they need for the actual tone they desire. None of them turn it up loud enough to hurt the mix, they just need predictable clean tone. They make their pedal choices with the Twin in mind because they know you can rent a Twin virtually anywhere. Many of them specify the '65 Reissue Twin Reverb as it's an even more predictable tone and quality.
 
Re: Rent the backline / buy the backline ?

Milt Hathaway said:
It is popular among praise & worship bands, and some 'hipster' bands.

The vast majority of Twin Reverb requests I see are because it can play as loud as needed very cleanly, and the guitarists requesting it are carrying whatever pedals they need for the actual tone they desire. None of them turn it up loud enough to hurt the mix, they just need predictable clean tone. They make their pedal choices with the Twin in mind because they know you can rent a Twin virtually anywhere. Many of them specify the '65 Reissue Twin Reverb as it's an even more predictable tone and quality.
Click to expand...

Vox AC30: As I said, it's a great amp, with a great dry crunch, and signature chime - but these are not the qualities that are prized in blues or most country.


Twin: What has this got to do with renting backline to strangers? Although you're right - as a muso, a Twin, with its abundant headroom, takes loops better than any amp I can think of.

And "Twin Reverb" and "backline" in such close proximity doesn't mean an original '65 blackface or '68 drip edge, it implies a TRRI, unless one is doing arena backline.
 
Re: Rent the backline / buy the backline ?

Shane Presley said:
There isn't a truely dedicated backline company around here (which is ridiculous, Ottawa is the captial of Canada for christ sake). There are a few "straggler" type guys, that have a bit of this and a bit of that, but nobody strictly into backline.

The problem with the riders I'm getting is they do often have boutique type items (hammond organs with leslie ) etc... which I will never have and are hard to source locally.... but as for straight ahead guitar amps and stuff, I agree, I'm going to take the #1 choice on the rider and probably buy that...

Vox / fender, 2x12 amps - ampeg 8x10 w head, and my kit for this year....

next year proabbly a high end yamaha recording, or pearl masters kit... something like that...
Thanks
Click to expand...

It's a bit of a drive, but PA Shop in London has, in my opinion, very reasonable backline rates.
 
Re: Rent the backline / buy the backline ?

Hey Shane,

In Germany I started providing backline while I was supporting the USO, MWR and AFE tours which all had to travel pretty light. What I learned from that experience is that musicians have degrees of pickyness; drummers tend to be happy behind any reasonable drum kit with fresh heads, bass players are a bit choosier but are generally ok with a good 4x10 cab and namebrand solidstate head. Guitarists are a different animal entirely and are much harder to please.

With this experience I purchased an above average Mapex 5 piece kit, Zildjian cymbals and SKB cases, an SWR 4x10 cab and head in cases and a pair of Roland Cube 60 guitar amps, also in cases, for the really compact MWR shows. The drums paid for themselves a few times over, the bass amp wasn't far behind and the Rolands I may have broke even on. Usually the Band's Manager would give me some pushback on the drums and bass amps until I quoted them the cost for the boutique equipment they wanted from the backline shop. 9 times out of 10 they would accept the drums and bass amp, but pay extra for the guitar amps from the backline shop.

Your stock of backline doesn't have to keep everybody happy, but if you can cover a few of the often requested items, you can pocket some of the money that would otherwise go to the backline dealer.

Cheers
 
Re: Rent the backline / buy the backline ?

Milt Hathaway said:
I recommend the Yamaha. Brands mean everything to the RMs and PMs that are approving things, and about 80% of riders I'm seeing right now are asking for some flavor of Yamaha kit. The gigs I've gotten that wanted something else were happy to use it anyway, even those with endorsement deals for other brands. Just replace the kick reso with a blank head and they'll be happy.

FWIW, a fairly recent list of my backline inventory is here: FitzCo Rental Rates - Midland, TX - (432) 684-0861
Click to expand...

I find DW to be the most popular around here, with Yamaha Custom anything to be second.
 
Re: Rent the backline / buy the backline ?

I bought just enough decent backline to cover those occasional church / wedding band / small touring acts that request "a drum kit" or "a bass amp." It was all from craigslist so it was pretty cheap, and since I purchased it, there have been many instances where I get a call the day before the show asking if I can provide something last minute, and I just have to toss it in the truck.

a Yamaha Stage Custom drum kit
an Ampeg SVT-410HLF with a basic GK head
a Fender DeVille 212 combo tube amp
a Yamaha MO8 88 key weighted keyboard

You'll end up chasing your tail trying to own everything. I'm good friends with the local backline provider so I get all my twins, jc-120's, dw kits and stuff from him. So far the above listed gear does a fine job for the level of acts requesting it.
 
Re: Rent the backline / buy the backline ?

Shane Presley said:
Hey guys, I'm just wondering who here provides backline as part of their services and if you could give me any advise as to whether I should rent or buy, and where is that "line" for you.
Currently I rent - I have a guy who meets me in the parking lot of my day job, and we swap the gear into my half ton (where it may or may not rain - I have to come prepared). None of his stuff is cased, soft covers on the guitar amps at best.... I use the gear and usually return using the same process. A lot of loading and unloading, threat of weather all the time etc...

Currently I'm renting about 4 times per year, but could maybe sell to a couple other events the service if I had it in house..
Where I live there isn't alot of rock type requirement, so I don't really need any 4x12 slants and marshall heads... country / blues is the name of the game for me.... so that's why I'm leaning to the vox amps, and fender blues, devilles.... etc...

Since I am a drummer with a decent drum kit (premiere), that's out of the way (until I hit endorsees). So guitar amp(s) / bass amp.
I am looking at a vox a/c30cc and some variant of Ampeg 8x10, or 4x10 and Ampeg head (still deciding on full out tube classic 300, or rack mount tube pro series). So any pits falls, maintenance issues I haven't thought about... My biggest pet peeve is the lack of cases and protection from my current provider, so loading it in my 5 ton amongst my production gear is always a worrisome event.

I'd like to have an amp or two, and a bass amp to offer a small little package - any thoughts , advise good and bad ?
Click to expand...

If you are buying gear, do not buy the AC30cc, most guys asking for an AC30 will not accept it. If you are buying gear to meet riders just go with the old standbys

DW Collectors or Yamaha Absolute

SVT Classic w/ 8x10

AC30TB

Twin Reverb 65'

Keyboards really depend on your market, in my market I would do Nord, but probably not for country.

Even if this stuff is not first choice, almost everyone will accept it.
 
Re: Rent the backline / buy the backline ?

How is the Backline progressing?

I own the third largest backline company in Nashville (and growing). I have way over 100 amplifiers, lots of drums and keyboards, and still have to buy or subrent to satisfy many riders.

My hardest working pieces reflect a lot of what is already listed: Fender reissues and Devilles, Vox AC30s (everyone seems to like the British made), Yamaha and DW drums, SVT, Aguilar, and a variety of keyboards.

Keyboards can be difficult as they are very expensive, there is a wide range of requests, and the value of new keyboards drop like a rock in a pond in a few years. The "vintage" pieces like Korg Tritons have much better return.

I have the benefit of good relationships with other backline companies in town, we subrent from each other to fill the gaps in riders. I'd guess that the person you were renting from would rather subrent to you at a reduced price for your riders than to lose your business altogether.

Here's a link to my site with my inventory and client lists:
Rent backline,guitar,amplifier,keyboards,drums,recording & sound systems Nashville
 
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