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The Basement
running commentary on middle east policy and news.
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<blockquote data-quote="John Roberts" data-source="post: 49359" data-attributes="member: 126"><p>Re: running commentary on middle east policy and news.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I can imagine lots of things that would be better... but listing them is not productive. Lets try to focus on what to do, from where we are to make things better. </p><p></p><p>That statement of opinion makes some rather large assumptions about agenda and intent. </p><p></p><p>I am not proud of the fact that we used nuclear weapons in war, but after the fact analysis, that I have seen suggests it saved lives on both sides by avoiding a bloody ground invasion into Japan. They weren't likely to surrender without a serious fight, to the end. </p><p></p><p>The history since then should be pretty well known, but probably exists in several different versions depending on your perspective. </p><p></p><p>Once again I ask for thoughtful consideration for how to make things better from here, not just whining about how messed up something is. That is not constructive. Our history with the soviets to nudge them to secure and dispose of their excess weapons inventory safely has been largely an exchange of our money to them to pay for, what they should be doing by themselves. </p><p></p><p>IMO the world doesn't need any more nuclear weapons. The jocular suggestion to just give them to everybody would not end well. This assumes rational behavior by all actors, and we should know by now that many in leadership positions have been playing with a deck that is short a few cards with extra jokers. Reviewing Khadaffi's speeches at the UN should give some insight into his mental state. He was pursuing nuclear weapons until getting discouraged by Saddam's fate. </p><p></p><p>Cute, but I do not see Israel as the aggressor here... They seem singularly focused on defensive preservation of their state. If Europe wants them to give up the dirt there, offer return to their former residences in Europe. The israeli/Palestinian conflict is an open sore, kept raw by other states in the region as a surrogate attack against Israel that they can't or won't openly admit to. All those missiles that land on Israeli may be launched from nearby but ultimately the support comes from other neighbors in the region. It is inaccurate to think of this as just a dispute between those two parties. </p><p></p><p>I alluded to the game within the game. On one side there is a concern about voter fraud, where political operatives run up vote numbers with fake voters. Some were so brazen as to register as Disney characters. Many examples of dead people apparently rising from the grave to vote, etc. I recall in one voting district in my state, a couple elections ago, they counted more votes than they had registered voters. On the other side the argument is that other political operatives try to discourage legal voters from exercising their right. There are historical examples of this too, with abuses from both sides. </p><p></p><p>The argument that picture voter ID is too high of a barrier and engineered to prevent legal voters from voting seems pretty thin to me. I do see how it might discourage non-citizens from voting, and make fraud a little harder. </p><p></p><p>Since I last voted only yesterday it seems like it should be pretty easy to me, to ask voters who lack a picture ID and are unknown to the poll station personnel, to leave behind a finger print and sit for a quick photo, maybe give them a temporary ID on the spot. We already have to sign a ledger and vocally attest to who we are. If a decision is close enough to be contested, these questionable votes can be later reviewed and researched to determine the validity of these undocumented voters. There is an emotional knee-jerk reaction against a scenario where we have to show our "papers" to exercise our rights since the implication is that the state could withhold these papers and deny these rights, while we routinely need papers to exercise the "privilege" of driving a car on public streets, and the state routinely withholds that privilege for just cause. . </p><p></p><p></p><p>Perhaps one reason for the resistance... "Show us your papers" ... For Americans this is something out of an old movie (placed in a foreign country) and mostly about letters of transit or something similar used to push some plot point. :-( The UN has long been a podium for hyperbolic criticism of the US, and some of the appointments to various commissions seem contextually bizarre. Often mostly well behaved western nations get charged, while horrendous offenders get a free pass. it is hard to take these agencies seriously, while some do.</p><p></p><p>JR</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="John Roberts, post: 49359, member: 126"] Re: running commentary on middle east policy and news. I can imagine lots of things that would be better... but listing them is not productive. Lets try to focus on what to do, from where we are to make things better. That statement of opinion makes some rather large assumptions about agenda and intent. I am not proud of the fact that we used nuclear weapons in war, but after the fact analysis, that I have seen suggests it saved lives on both sides by avoiding a bloody ground invasion into Japan. They weren't likely to surrender without a serious fight, to the end. The history since then should be pretty well known, but probably exists in several different versions depending on your perspective. Once again I ask for thoughtful consideration for how to make things better from here, not just whining about how messed up something is. That is not constructive. Our history with the soviets to nudge them to secure and dispose of their excess weapons inventory safely has been largely an exchange of our money to them to pay for, what they should be doing by themselves. IMO the world doesn't need any more nuclear weapons. The jocular suggestion to just give them to everybody would not end well. This assumes rational behavior by all actors, and we should know by now that many in leadership positions have been playing with a deck that is short a few cards with extra jokers. Reviewing Khadaffi's speeches at the UN should give some insight into his mental state. He was pursuing nuclear weapons until getting discouraged by Saddam's fate. Cute, but I do not see Israel as the aggressor here... They seem singularly focused on defensive preservation of their state. If Europe wants them to give up the dirt there, offer return to their former residences in Europe. The israeli/Palestinian conflict is an open sore, kept raw by other states in the region as a surrogate attack against Israel that they can't or won't openly admit to. All those missiles that land on Israeli may be launched from nearby but ultimately the support comes from other neighbors in the region. It is inaccurate to think of this as just a dispute between those two parties. I alluded to the game within the game. On one side there is a concern about voter fraud, where political operatives run up vote numbers with fake voters. Some were so brazen as to register as Disney characters. Many examples of dead people apparently rising from the grave to vote, etc. I recall in one voting district in my state, a couple elections ago, they counted more votes than they had registered voters. On the other side the argument is that other political operatives try to discourage legal voters from exercising their right. There are historical examples of this too, with abuses from both sides. The argument that picture voter ID is too high of a barrier and engineered to prevent legal voters from voting seems pretty thin to me. I do see how it might discourage non-citizens from voting, and make fraud a little harder. Since I last voted only yesterday it seems like it should be pretty easy to me, to ask voters who lack a picture ID and are unknown to the poll station personnel, to leave behind a finger print and sit for a quick photo, maybe give them a temporary ID on the spot. We already have to sign a ledger and vocally attest to who we are. If a decision is close enough to be contested, these questionable votes can be later reviewed and researched to determine the validity of these undocumented voters. There is an emotional knee-jerk reaction against a scenario where we have to show our "papers" to exercise our rights since the implication is that the state could withhold these papers and deny these rights, while we routinely need papers to exercise the "privilege" of driving a car on public streets, and the state routinely withholds that privilege for just cause. . Perhaps one reason for the resistance... "Show us your papers" ... For Americans this is something out of an old movie (placed in a foreign country) and mostly about letters of transit or something similar used to push some plot point. :-( The UN has long been a podium for hyperbolic criticism of the US, and some of the appointments to various commissions seem contextually bizarre. Often mostly well behaved western nations get charged, while horrendous offenders get a free pass. it is hard to take these agencies seriously, while some do. JR [/QUOTE]
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