Small light PA tops with excellent sound quality

G

George Friedman-Jimenez

Freshman
Oct 27, 2011
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Northern NJ
The percussion / vocals group I play with is getting more smaller gigs and fewer large gigs. Our PA is for vocals only, plus dance DJing between sets. My current system, a pair of QRX112/75s FOH with either ART310A or EV ZXA1 monitor and A&H Zed10FX mixer, sounds excellent and meets most of our needs, except we could use a small subwoofer for the between-sets DJing (Cuban timba, salsa). I have downsized a bit and for smaller gigs have been using EV ZX3s for FOH, which are about 15 pounds lighter than the QRXs and sound pretty good with the DSP presets I have worked out. Unfortunately, this system is more than we need for many of our recent gigs. With the 41 or 60 lb speakers and the amps and DSP it is also more cumbersome than I would like.

I am looking to put together an even smaller PA for gigs in clubs with 30-100 people, still for vocals only plus DJing between sets. For this system, I want to dispense with the amps and DSP, and get 2 small powered tops and a powered subwoofer. Given limitations due to my basement stairs, car and back, I am looking for tops weighing less than 35 pounds each, and a sub under 80 pounds or so. For the kind of music we do, clarity of vocals and excellent sound quality with no EQ are the top priorities, 90x50 degree coverage is probably better than the 75x50 of the QRXs, and a few dB lower max SPL than the QRXs. Budget is under $1K per top. We are looking for an active subwoofer flat down to 40 Hz (-3dB), and the JBL PRX618S-XLF looks like the best match for my needs (weight, size, sound quality, LF extension, integrated HPF and switchable LPF).

For tops, I have ruled out the RCF ART310A (not flat enough, not enough vocal clarity), EV ZXA1 (a bit too bright without EQ, sound quality not clear or loud enough, build quality not robust enough), EV ELX112P (too heavy), Yamaha DSR112 (too heavy), RCF NX M10-A (too expensive), RCF TT08 (too expensive), Mackie HD1221 (too heavy), and Yorkville NX55 (not clear enough sound quality).

In summary, I am looking for small powered tops that sound as clear for vocals as the QRXs, reliable, weigh 20-35 pounds, have a long term SPL around 119-124 dB each at 1m before limiting, and cost under $1K per box. I would consider 8", 10" or 12" boxes that meet those criteria. A built-in HPF would be nice but is not essential. My current short list to listen to is:

JBL PRX612M
RCF ART710A
QSC K10
RCF ART708A

My question to you is, are there any other tops that I should be considering?
 
Re: Small light PA tops with excellent sound quality

Yeah, I had checked out the Fuclrum FA28s, they look great on paper, along with the Fulcrum 2x12 subwoofers. Both of these passives require DSP, and Fulcrum recommends high end DSP with FIR, so the passives would be even more expensive for me with amps and DSP than the powered versions are likely to be. Definitely over budget for this application, but thanks anyway. What is your opinion of the PRX612Ms you reviewed in a recent thread for the application I am describing here? I haven't yet listened to either the PRX612M or the RCF ART710A yet, but plan to this week or next.
 
Re: Small light PA tops with excellent sound quality

I have a B rig that is just 2 Mackie 1521z, it what I have been using for 98% of the weddings that I have been doing simply because of volume and control. You wouldn't believe how flat these things are... I'm a smaart junkie so I have FFT'd them. In a large open room a little 6.3 and 8k will suffice. While I do own various subs, I never take them because I can get plenty of low end out of the 15 driver. Their active so all they need is a line level signal. There's in attenuator on the back panel that usually stays rolled back -10dB and I still have plenty of PA for 300 person party. The price is right on these things and they have been very reliable for 4 years... 20 times a year. There are/were 2 versions of this box- the one I have is the one that marketed as "tuned by EAW"

I have heard of people burning out drivers and amp channels, but it's usually followed with... "there was this DJ.."
 
Re: Small light PA tops with excellent sound quality

As the thread is titled, I am looking for a lightweight speaker. I guess light means different things to different people, but the Mackie 1521z weighs 101 pounds. That is 43 pounds more than the "heavy" speakers I am trying to replace, and 3 or 4 times the weight I am looking for for this application.
 
Re: Small light PA tops with excellent sound quality

George Friedman-Jimenez said:
In summary, I am looking for small powered tops that sound as clear for vocals as the QRXs, reliable, weigh 20-35 pounds, have a long term SPL around 119-124 dB each at 1m before limiting, and cost under $1K per box. I would consider 8", 10" or 12" boxes that meet those criteria. A built-in HPF would be nice but is not essential.
Click to expand...


George Friedman-Jimenez said:
As the thread is titled, I am looking for a lightweight speaker. I guess light means different things to different people, but the Mackie 1521z weighs 101 pounds. That is 43 pounds more than the "heavy" speakers I am trying to replace, and 3 or 4 times the weight I am looking for for this application.
Click to expand...

George,

So you want a 25-33 pound speaker that can do 119-124dB continuous that sounds better than the EV QRX, is powered, and costs less than $1,000?

If you find it, please let us know. I'm sure we would all like the same thing.

I suspect you will find after listening that powered boxes that say they have SPL figures in that range (for under $1,000) sound like shit within 10dB of their stated output, if they actually reach it. You might be able to get peak SPL around that target. I don't know if LF extension is important to you, but you will definitely want to put your ear on every box you are considering since in that price bracket the specs are mostly dreams.

What you are asking for is a difficult target for high end pro boxes 4-5x your price range and not necessarily powered.
 
Re: Small light PA tops with excellent sound quality

Bennett Prescott said:
George,

So you want a 25-33 pound speaker that can do 119-124dB continuous that sounds better than the EV QRX, is powered, and costs less than $1,000?

If you find it, please let us know. I'm sure we would all like the same thing.

I suspect you will find after listening that powered boxes that say they have SPL figures in that range (for under $1,000) sound like shit within 10dB of their stated output, if they actually reach it. You might be able to get peak SPL around that target. I don't know if LF extension is important to you, but you will definitely want to put your ear on every box you are considering since in that price bracket the specs are mostly dreams.

What you are asking for is a difficult target for high end pro boxes 4-5x your price range and not necessarily powered.
Click to expand...

+1, at least.

Getting off the datasheets and out into the world of engineering, a real 120dB is not trivial. Think top flight 15"/1.4" or dual 10s and a 1.4" exit.

-Phil
 
Re: Small light PA tops with excellent sound quality

I heard a set of these for the first time about 4 weeks ago.

http://www.peavey.com/products/proa...e/index.cfm/item/117533/Impulse 12D.html

Manual here.

http://www.peavey.com/assets/literature/manuals/117533_11418.pdf

They were louder than I thought they would be. Sounded fine even with the system only having a behringer desk with its channel strip eqs the only eq available.
It was a Community Players type show with Upright bass,guitars,keys,small horn section and 12 vocal channels. Did a good job keeping everything clear in the room.
Not a bad overall listen.

Douglas R. Allen
 
Re: Small light PA tops with excellent sound quality

Thanks, Douglas. The Peavey is a little bigger and heavier than what I am looking for, but I will keep it in mind.

Bennett Prescott said:
George,
So you want a 25-33 pound speaker that can do 119-124dB continuous that sounds better than the EV QRX, is powered, and costs less than $1,000?
If you find it, please let us know. I'm sure we would all like the same thing.
I suspect you will find after listening that powered boxes that say they have SPL figures in that range (for under $1,000) sound like shit within 10dB of their stated output, if they actually reach it. You might be able to get peak SPL around that target. I don't know if LF extension is important to you, but you will definitely want to put your ear on every box you are considering since in that price bracket the specs are mostly dreams.
What you are asking for is a difficult target for high end pro boxes 4-5x your price range and not necessarily powered.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Bennett and Phil. I am not surprised at what you are saying with regard to the high end of my range, ie 124 dB / 1 meter, but I am a bit surprised at the low end. 119 dB is 6 dB less than the QRX is rated, and 2-9 dB less than most of the better 10" or 12" powered speakers in that weight and price range are rated. So you are saying that speakers like the the PRX612M, rated at 134 dB peak (presumably 128 dB continuous) or the RCF ART710A, rated at 129 dB "max" (presumably equivalent to 123 dB continuous) will sound bad even that far below their max continuous rating. I have not been cranking them that high in the stores, given the limited distances available and the presence of other humans in the nearby area, and those two have sounded decent at 112-115 dB / 1 meter spl. Neither surpasses the QRX for sound quality in my subjective opinion, but the PRX sounds reasonably close and the RCF with a little EQ could as well. Maybe I should bring my Peltor ear muff hearing protectors (and a couple extras in case anyone else is in the store) and go back and crank them up another 5-10 dB, step back 25 feet, and take the muffs off, to see how much the sound degenerates at those SPLs.

Realistically, I only need about 96 dB at 25 feet for most of my small gigs, which would be about 114 dB at 1 meter, so I should probably lower my target SPL range to 114-118 dB continuous at 1 m for this small rig. My priority is sound quality, vocal clarity, and even coverage rather than SPL. Would that lower target open up any new options that are not on my short list in my first post?
 
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Re: Small light PA tops with excellent sound quality

George,

When you base your understanding of SPL on loudspeaker spec sheets there is bound to be confusion. You make several assumptions, especially that peak SPL is 6dB more than continuous, that the loudspeakers in question even have the amp power to deliver the SPL they promise (and at what frequency?), and that the peak or continuous SPL numbers have ever actually been measured by the manufacturer. There are plenty of MI grade cabinets and pro grade cabinets with nearly identical specs, the difference is the pro grade cabinet won't make you cover your ears when you ask it to deliver what it says it will deliver.

If you plan to use a loudspeaker at a certain SPL, best listen to it at that SPL first to make sure it will do it to your satisfaction.
 
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