Snowblower, single stage

C

Cevin Reed

Freshman
Jan 25, 2011
51
0
0
Minneapolis
My 10 year old Yardman snowblower is done for I believe. My neighbor has a Toro 621 QZR and it appears to be awesome; runs effortlessly even in deep wet snow, throws very far, doesn't clog, zips down the driveway quickly leaving a nicely scrapped driveway, and the quick-shoot works great.

Are there other brands that really kick ass? Tell me about them. I don't want a 2-stage, they are just too big for what I need.

Thanks.
 
Re: Snowblower, single stage

Everything I've read about the Toro is just as you say.
My old Lawn Boy 2-smoke is of similar age as yours, and needs work.
For a paved drive sidewalks, and nothing much over 6", the single stage blowers may actually be better than the 2-stage as the rubber paddles get all the way down to the pavement.
 
Re: Snowblower, single stage

I had a Snapper that had a Tecumseh Snow King engine that I loved. Used it for 6 or 7 years before moving and upgrading to a tractor-mounted blower. It had a primer bellows, and started without fail with one pull. Mine was a 2-stage, but I assume the line extends downward to smaller ones.
 
Re: Snowblower, single stage

Bought a little Toro this year so I'd have something I could throw into the back of the Jetta wagon. Now I can drive around and help friends who need a hand. One pull start. So far I like it, and the dealer (small engine shop in the neighborhood) is great for service and support. I bought it as much because of them as the brand.
 
Re: Snowblower, single stage

Arthur Skudra said:
Honda single stage HS621 here, over 10 years old, great machine!
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Same here, not quite as old, been great. Electric start when I'm not inclined to pull a rope on a cold morning.

Just talked with an aquaintence with a Toro that's apparently been a lemon since day one, and that's not the first time I've heard of issues with them.

If you get a lot of wet snow though, a two stage is better.

Best regards,

John
 
Re: Snowblower, single stage

Kemper Watson said:
How fast can y'all get to Atlanta?
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No more snow than y'all got, I can drive *in* Atlanta. The ice? SLOW DOWN.

There will be interesting political fallout for mayors and governors who didn't grasp the meaning of the words "winter storm warning" in a geographic region that is largely unaccustomed to such events.
 
Re: Snowblower, single stage

Tim McCulloch said:
No more snow than y'all got, I can drive *in* Atlanta. The ice? SLOW DOWN.

There will be interesting political fallout for mayors and governors who didn't grasp the meaning of the words "winter storm warning" in a geographic region that is largely unaccustomed to such events.
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The biggest part of our problem was that it was SUPPOSED to go below Atlanta. Macon and the middle of the state was to get the 3 1/2 inches we got. I woke up to warnings of a "light dusting" at 3 PM. When it started snowing heavily at 11:15, everyone hit the highways and overwhelmed it. The school system is usually the first to call snow days. Even they were misinformed as none of them closed. I was lucky in that in getting my brakes done early that AM, it took way longer than expected. When it started snowing, I was 2 miles from my house. I hit Target for food and was home in 25 minutes

Edit: There is still a National Weather Service Radar map showing it going below McDonough GA somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.
 
Re: Snowblower, single stage

Tim McCulloch said:
No more snow than y'all got, I can drive *in* Atlanta. The ice? SLOW DOWN.

There will be interesting political fallout for mayors and governors who didn't grasp the meaning of the words "winter storm warning" in a geographic region that is largely unaccustomed to such events.
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As an ex-Yankee residing in the deep south for a few decades the reaction to winter storms is amusing, while not fun for the people stuck in the morass.

This storm was unusual for down here due to the combination of snow and sub freezing cold. This is the first snow I can remember where there is still snow on the ground two days after the storm. Usually it melts within hours.

Traffic in Atlanta is a struggle in good weather, it is not hard to imagine the difficulty they are dealing with until this melts and goes away.

@Tim, re: common sense for driving in slippery conditions, for many younger drivers this is their first encounter and some clearly drive too fast, some drive too slow. I've seen both, while I tend to just stay off the roads when such conditions are expected. My current ride is not snow/ice compatible. This storm should not have been a surprise as it was widely predicted well in advance. A habit I picked up from back when I drove a motorcycle, I pay attention to the weather reports. They have gotten pretty damn accurate for near term projections.

Good luck to Atlanta... and everybody in the path of that storm. It hit far more than just Hot'lanta.

JR
 
Re: Atlanta's troubles in context

Tim McCulloch said:
Clear the wreckage of idjit drivers and I bet anyone with a modicum of winter weather driving experience could make it.
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Tim,

While I am sure this sentiment is common nation-wide right now, we have a confluence of things that fight against this in Atlanta, even with the best of preparations. Note that I'm not defending how it has been handled, but there are greater forces working against the city. The actual problem was ice, not snow. An engineer's take on this:

Background


  1. Atlanta is hilly, not like west coast hilly, but hilly everywhere, including long extended grades.
  2. Our 285 loop around the city is composed of almost entirely bridge sections.
  3. The ground here isn't cold enough when we get snow to keep the first snow fall from melting.
  4. Certain parts of the city's roads function as the only daily transportation corridor for a constant flow of tractor trailers to and from ports at Charleston, Augusta, Savannah, Brunswick, Mobile, and Chattanooga and the city's large intermodal railroad yards. Savannah alone averages over 8,000 trucks through the gate every day.
  5. Road salt is sparse, and people with tire chains nearly non-existent.

Results
  1. Snow flurries fall and melt.
  2. Latent heat from the melting snow rapidly cools the bridges, they fall below freezing, and sheet ice forms.
  3. By normal rush hour time the sheet became established, and the tractor trailers were the first to no longer be able to traverse the city's hills, effectively forming roadblocks at all key junctures and/or hills.
  4. The gridlock that started from people leaving early is cemented in place until the ice melts, or is otherwise dealt with.
  5. The thermal mass of the bridges hamper de-icing arrangements.

Thoughts
In my mind, no amount of Atlanta city prep is going to overcome the fundamental combination of semis, hills, and all that frozen bridgework. Even if we had an effective salting program city-wide, any gap in the salting and you'd be done in quickly by re-freezing. If we had a moratorium on semis through the city during this kind of weather, that would be a prudent start to avoiding such a mess, though the sheet ice eventually will catch up with all drivers here.

---

In my neighborhood, the sheet ice was sufficiently thick and continuous to allow sledding and ice skating up and down the main thoroughfares. Only the handful of people with tire chains and all wheel drive had hope of successful driving.

 
Re: Atlanta's troubles in context

Phil Graham said:

In my mind, no amount of Atlanta city prep is going to overcome the fundamental combination of semis, hills, and all that frozen bridgework. Even if we had an effective salting program city-wide, any gap in the salting and you'd be done in quickly by re-freezing. If we had a moratorium on semis through the city during this kind of weather, that would be a prudent start to avoiding such a mess, though the sheet ice eventually will catch up with all drivers here.
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Pre salting before the first snow falls works well in the equally hilly, bridge dependent, tractor trailer congested, northeast corridor. Only a major storm stops traffic for any length of time. New York's downtown and inner city areas may be affected longer due to lack of places to move the snow, but frozen highways are rarely a crisis. Even the smaller parkways are kept ice free.

Mac
 
Re: Atlanta's troubles in context

Phil Graham said:



In my neighborhood, the sheet ice was sufficiently thick and continuous to allow sledding and ice skating up and down the main thoroughfares. Only the handful of people with tire chains and all wheel drive had hope of successful driving.
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oh, to be a Subaru dealership in GA right now :)

Jason
 
Re: Atlanta's troubles in context

Phil an interesting engineering perspective. My only technical quibble with that is the bridges and overpasses are exposed to same melting snow as the road surface. They freeze up sooner because they do not have the thermal mass of the warmer earth to couple to with low enough thermal resistance to resist freezing longer than exposed structures.

That said this is all simpler than that. There are hills and overpasses in the north too. In the North they are accustomed to this kind of weather and budget the expense to support the infra structure to handle it (sand, plowing, etc). There are many lousy drivers and local politicians in the north too.

I've seen ice storms in the north that turned into bumper cars even for the "superior" northern winter drivers (cough). It just does not make fiscal sense for Georgia to budget and build up infrastructure for such rare weather events. The proper remedy (especially in hindsight) is to just close the roads to all but emergency vehicles. While the colder weather this time makes the natural remedy (melting) take longer. I can still see snow on the ground here but expect it to be all gone after today.

Since I lived outside Atlanta (twice) and ran the Atlanta marathon (once) years ago. I am intimately familiar with the hills. :-). Not exactly San Francisco, but a little ice makes even a slight grade hard to negotiate.

JR

PS: There is reason most overpasses are short straight lines. Easier to come out in roughly the same lane when icy. Long sweeping elevated ramps (like in Atlanta) will be a mess if slippery since any change of direction will test tire/road surface mu.

[edit] in my avatar picture you will see snow in the background... I recall riding that mini bike once at night in the middle of a snow storm (maybe an inch on the road surface at the time)... it was interesting how the snow absorbed so much road noise...it was a memorable experience, while I did not attempt any sharp turns. I didn't have to worry about braking. That bike didn't have brakes. :-) [/edit]
 
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Re: Atlanta's troubles in context

Phil Graham said:



Thoughts
In my mind, no amount of Atlanta city prep is going to overcome the fundamental combination of semis, hills, and all that frozen bridgework. Even if we had an effective salting program city-wide, any gap in the salting and you'd be done in quickly by re-freezing. If we had a moratorium on semis through the city during this kind of weather, that would be a prudent start to avoiding such a mess, though the sheet ice eventually will catch up with all drivers here.

---
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Semis (other than local deliveries) are already restricted to 285 even during normal conditions, so I'm not sure how blocking trucks would help. In fact you could be blocking vital deliveries during the times when they are most needed.
 
Re: Atlanta's troubles in context

mackerr said:
Pre salting before the first snow falls works well in the equally hilly, bridge dependent, tractor trailer congested, northeast corridor. Only a major storm stops traffic for any length of time. New York's downtown and inner city areas may be affected longer due to lack of places to move the snow, but frozen highways are rarely a crisis. Even the smaller parkways are kept ice free.

Mac
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I eagerly await your personal contribution to fund the salting equipment, and interim staging of said equipment, for an event that occurs a couple of times per decade :razz:
 
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Re: Atlanta's troubles in context

Will Lane said:
Semis (other than local deliveries) are already restricted to 285 even during normal conditions, so I'm not sure how blocking trucks would help. In fact you could be blocking vital deliveries during the times when they are most needed.
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[Note: I live about a click from the East-West intermodal train corridor in Atlanta]

Semis that need to access the intermodal yards must come into the city. The rail line is shaped like an "L" pointing north and east, with the downtown area in the corner of the L. Semis are also permitted on the cross-city I20 corridor, and this is a heavy path for truck traffic, as much of the staging warehouses are west of the city.

Regardless, the majority of problems that existed were tied to 285. Either on 285 proper, or at the various interchanges of ingress and egress to 285 from other thoroughfares.

A temporary moratorium on all truck traffic would have helped, in my opinion, and of all traffic would have been even better, of course.
 
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Re: Atlanta's troubles in context

John Roberts said:
Phil an interesting engineering perspective. My only technical quibble with that is the bridges and overpasses are exposed to same melting snow as the road surface. They freeze up sooner because they do not have the thermal mass of the warmer earth to couple to with low enough thermal resistance to resist freezing longer than exposed structures.
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We are saying the same thing. The bridge's lack of thermal mass, coupled with the energy required to complete the phase change, causes the rapid formation of said ice.

It just does not make fiscal sense for Georgia to budget and build up infrastructure for such rare weather events. The proper remedy (especially in hindsight) is to just close the roads to all but emergency vehicles.
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Agreed on both points. It still would have been a mess without the semi troubles, but they exacerbated this week's issues in a clear way.

Long sweeping elevated ramps (like in Atlanta) will be a mess if slippery since any change of direction will test tire/road surface mu.
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Right.
 
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