Stand alone 215 cabinets question.

C

Craig Stone

Freshman
Aug 7, 2011
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I have a pair of Yamaha s215v cabinets. I play rooms with under 200 people. Should I have the cabinets on the floor or up on stands when I use them? I've been using them with stands and they seem to be doing okay. I just wonder if they will perform any better on the floor. :?~:-?~:???: :roll: I don't want to find out the hard way that putting them on the floor isn't a good idea.

Pardon my ignorance.
 
Re: Stand alone 215 cabinets question.

Craig Stone said:
I have a pair of Yamaha s215v cabinets. I play rooms with under 200 people. Should I have the cabinets on the floor or up on stands when I use them? I've been using them with stands and they seem to be doing okay. I just wonder if they will perform any better on the floor. :?~:-?~:???: :roll: I don't want to find out the hard way that putting them on the floor isn't a good idea.

Pardon my ignorance.
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Unless your audience is a bunch of preschool children I'd keep them on the stands.

Make sure your stands are rated to take the weight safely.
 
Re: Stand alone 215 cabinets question.

As others have said up off the floor with horns above head height. Technically you'd get some low frequency coupling having them on the floor as far as bass coverage goes, but then nobody would hear anything else once bodies blocked the horns. If you need better low end, get subs. No full range box will give you the low frequency extension of real subs anyway.
 
Re: Stand alone 215 cabinets question.

Greg Cameron said:
If you need better low end, get subs. No full range box will give you the low frequency extension of real subs anyway.
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Yeah, I know I should have at least one sub. I'm working on it. The s215v cabs don't sound bad, though. There just isn't much useful below about 50Hz. I can get them to sound warm enough to get by, for now.
 
Re: Stand alone 215 cabinets question.

Craig Stone said:
Yeah, I know I should have at least one sub. I'm working on it. The s215v cabs don't sound bad, though. There just isn't much useful below about 50Hz. I can get them to sound warm enough to get by, for now.
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If you have a DSP available you can use Yamaha's settings which work pretty well for all their products. But whatever you do, make sure that they are up in the air so that everyone can hear them, not just the front row!

http://download.yamaha.com/api/asse...ite-master.prod.exp.yamaha.com&asset_id=52951
 
Re: Stand alone 215 cabinets question.

Craig Stone said:
That's very useful information! Thank you. I don't have a DSP, but I have a Rolls REQ131 equalizer. It looks like I might be able to (somewhat) apply the info provided in the Yamaha processor settings, using my EQ. I don't have the ability to set the Q, but I think I can give the settings a shot and see how it works.
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Mistake.jpeg
 
Re: Stand alone 215 cabinets question.

Craig Stone said:
Sometimes people can use an explanation, with responses like this one. What mistake am I about to make? Why would it be a mistake to try and accomplish the same thing the DSP is going to do? You are the expert and I'm all ears. :)
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Craig,

Without measuring its output, it's not possible to know what the desired filter result from the Yamaha DSP. Even with another DSP, these kinds of settings are difficult to match as the numbers you put in on one may not create the same output on another. With a graphic EQ, however, it may not even be possible to create the desired filter shapes. The filter frequencies are arbitrary (as far as your loudspeaker is concerned), you will have to use several in combination, and their effects in combination are totally unpredictable. Graphic EQs are good for many things, quickly EQing to taste or quickly killing feedback for instance. Compared to the filters in a DSP though it's like trying to kill a fly with a cannon, only you can't even move the cannon horizontally, only vertically, and you can't see where you're shooting.

I'm not saying you can't use a graphic EQ to improve the sound of your monitor, but trying to copy these settings into one is going to be very frustrating. The Q of a slider on a 31 band graphic EQ is, ballpark, 4. How do you make a Q=6.3 filter at 137Hz, -4.7dB?
 
Re: Stand alone 215 cabinets question.

Bennett Prescott said:
I'm not saying you can't use a graphic EQ to improve the sound of your monitor, but trying to copy these settings into one is going to be very frustrating. The Q of a slider on a 31 band graphic EQ is, ballpark, 4. How do you make a Q=6.3 filter at 137Hz, -4.7dB?
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Like I said: "You're the expert." I have no idea about how wide the Q is on a graphic EQ. I just looked up Q about an hour ago, to be honest, and apart from several Star Trek references, I didn't get much. ;)

What I found that was useful in the Yamaha info, then, was that I can set the high pass a bit lower. Right now, I have it at about 40Hz. The guide says high pass at just over 30Hz. Am I correct in thinking I should at least adjust that much?
 
Re: Stand alone 215 cabinets question.

And toss in that applying EQ to the input signal doesn't create an audibly identical result to applying EQ to the crossover pass band outputs...
 
Re: Stand alone 215 cabinets question.

Craig Stone said:
Like I said: "You're the expert." I have no idea about how wide the Q is on a graphic EQ. I just looked up Q about an hour ago, to be honest, and apart from several Star Trek references, I didn't get much. ;)

What I found that was useful in the Yamaha info, then, was that I can set the high pass a bit lower. Right now, I have it at about 40Hz. The guide says high pass at just over 30Hz. Am I correct in thinking I should at least adjust that much?
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Q= the width of the filter. On a graphic eq, it's fixed. On a DSP, it's variable
 
Re: Stand alone 215 cabinets question.

Craig Stone said:
What I found that was useful in the Yamaha info, then, was that I can set the high pass a bit lower. Right now, I have it at about 40Hz. The guide says high pass at just over 30Hz. Am I correct in thinking I should at least adjust that much?
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Craig,

Are you having problems with the level of very low frequency output? Yamaha suggests about 30Hz, but they also suggest a 4th order Butterworth filter. What is the filter in your EQ? Personally, I would set it much higher - around 40Hz - since excursion is bound to be the limiting factor here and 40Hz is still considered the "subwoofer" range by many. Should get you some extra output for free, although it's hard to say for sure what's right without knowing these boxes actual frequency response. 30hz is really very low for even a large, modern, top of the line PA system.
 
Re: Stand alone 215 cabinets question.

Bennett Prescott said:
Craig,

Are you having problems with the level of very low frequency output? Yamaha suggests about 30Hz, but they also suggest a 4th order Butterworth filter. What is the filter in your EQ? Personally, I would set it much higher - around 40Hz - since excursion is bound to be the limiting factor here and 40Hz is still considered the "subwoofer" range by many. Should get you some extra output for free, although it's hard to say for sure what's right without knowing these boxes actual frequency response. 30hz is really very low for even a large, modern, top of the line PA system.
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There's a club close by with those boxes. They high passed them at 50 till they could afford subs. Now they're high passed at around 100. They clean up pretty well at 100
 
Re: Stand alone 215 cabinets question.

Well, I'm glad I asked the question. I learned a bit from this thread, I might not have learned. I'll keep the high pass at 40Hz. The boxes sound good enough where they are, until I get at least one sub.

I sincerely appreciate everyone's help. Thank you! :)
 
Re: Stand alone 215 cabinets question.

A loudspeaker DSP is an extremely useful tool for you to have. It will take some time to learn what it all does and to be able to apply it correctly, but there really is no substitute for a good DSP. And as you start shopping around, the Driverack PA is not a good DSP. If you are on a budget go for the Berhinger or the Peavey models. Both of them are miles ahead of the DRPA, and way cheaper.

If you look hard enough and get lucky, sometimes you can score a BSS, Ashly, or XTA box for pretty cheap money. Those are top of the line DSP's....

Good luck! I had a pair of those Yammies for a year and they made me a bunch of money.
 
Re: Stand alone 215 cabinets question.

Tim Weaver said:
A loudspeaker DSP is an extremely useful tool for you to have. It will take some time to learn what it all does and to be able to apply it correctly, but there really is no substitute for a good DSP. And as you start shopping around, the Driverack PA is not a good DSP. If you are on a budget go for the Berhinger or the Peavey models. Both of them are miles ahead of the DRPA, and way cheaper.

If you look hard enough and get lucky, sometimes you can score a BSS, Ashly, or XTA box for pretty cheap money. Those are top of the line DSP's....

Good luck! I had a pair of those Yammies for a year and they made me a bunch of money.
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Add Xilica to that list.
 
Re: Stand alone 215 cabinets question.

Craig Stone said:
Yeah, I know I should have at least one sub. I'm working on it. The s215v cabs don't sound bad, though. There just isn't much useful below about 50Hz. I can get them to sound warm enough to get by, for now.
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A lot of people buy 2x15 cabinets to get by without subs. I understand you're looking for at least one sub and just wanted to reinforce that's a good idea. Many people don't understand that getting the lows of the mains is not a benefit just because a dedicated sub can do lows better, but equally, if not more important, is that getting the lows out of the mains allows for MUCH improved clarity as the woofer doesn't have to try and recreate those important mids while thumping out kick drum and transient bass attack, which move the cone wildly. Vocals in particular are greatly improved. This is why a single 12" can work well over subs and sound better than a lot of 2x15 cabs, especially at the MI level. Most cabinets at this level use the same compression driver in the 12", 15" and double 15" anyway.
 
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