The Bing-ing-ing-ing

Frank Koenig

Frank Koenig

Sophomore
Mar 7, 2011
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Palo Alto, CA USA
www.dunmovin.com
I'm not talking about the OTHER search engine, but the gorgeous new concert hall at Stanford. I have attended two shows there so far: the Center for Computer Research in Music and Acoustics (CCRMA) open house and concert, and Alarm Will Sound performing Steve Reich, who was present.

CCRMA was great because during the afternoon before the concert they had everything opened up and we were free to take a thorough self-guided tour. I had a very nice chat with the contract sound engineer who had spent the last two days flying and pole-mounting the 20 or so QSC powered speakers for CCRMA's ambiophonic system.

For Steve Reich they had deployed an odd looking system of 10 obviously custom-built full-range cabinets in addition to 2 ground-stacked clusters of subs. I would have taken a picture but no pictures were allowed. I tried to talk to the FOH engineer during intermission (Yamaha CL at FOH and monitors) but he looked pretty stressed and didn't want to talk to me. I'm really curious what that system is, who designed it, and whether it belongs to the Bing or was brought in.

But here's the Bing thing. Everyone I've talked to who's heard anything there thinks it's really live. I, too, found it that way, especially for Reich, which bordered on mud at times. So either all of us listening public are wrong, which is possible, or the hifalutin acousticians have some more work to do.

In any case, I look forward to hearing a lot more music there and learning more about what makes it tick. I imagine it's only a matter of time before our own Lee Brenkman, or another one of you, does a show there, if not already.

--Frank
 
Re: The Bing-ing-ing-ing

Frank Koenig said:
But here's the Bing thing. Everyone I've talked to who's heard anything there thinks it's really live. I, too, found it that way, especially for Reich, which bordered on mud at times. So either all of us listening public are wrong, which is possible, or the hifalutin acousticians have some more work to do.

--Frank
Click to expand...

First off, positive acronyming props.

When they build Libby Gardner performance hall at the University of Utah, they sent a team to Europe to study similar size halls.
The results were less than perfect for any form of amplified music. I suspect that some acousticians think that if it is good for acoustic music, it will be good for amplified acoustic music.

Also at Libby Garden Hall, there is a lot of cement. I don't think that cement is a mainstay in older European music halls.
I do think there is a lot of older brick, and stone, and substituting cement for these is a mistake.
At any rate, they made some changes, and it is better now.

Hopefully the Bing will make some upgrades, and the sound will be better at the CCRMA.

No ideas on the speakers.
 
Re: The Bing-ing-ing-ing

I probably won't be involved with any shows at the Bing Concert Hall until this Summer when I do my annual residency at the Stanford Jazz Workshop and Festival https://stanfordjazz.org/

Nick Malgieri who handled the sound at the Monterey Jazz Festival for McCune the past several years is the house guy and yes I'll bet he was pretty stressed out at the CCRMA show.

The speakers are all custom built by ATC ATC Loudspeakers. ATC Monitors. ATC SCM. ATC Speakers. Manufacturers of speakers, monitors, drive units and amplifiers.

The company is much better known for studio monitor systems but they beat out a couple of very respected manufacturers familiar to posters on this forum for this particular install.
 
Re: The Bing-ing-ing-ing

Lee, thanks. Cool to know who made these speakers. I would have expected Meyer, as they have many high-end installs around the Bay.

There's another odd thing. It looks like an ~10 ft. diameter white artichoke flown above the center of the hall. It was not there for CCRMA, as I recall, but appeared for Reich. At first I thought it had to be a speaker cluster with some artsy custom grillework, but after looking at it a while I decided it's more likely a passive acoustic device. (Moreover it wasn't making any noise.) But its area is so small compared with the size of the room it's hard to imagine that it does much.

Next time I'm in there I'm getting pictures. And I'm hoping the San Francisco AES chapter will arrange an audio/acoustic tour sometime.

--Frank
 
Re: The Bing-ing-ing-ing

Lee Brenkman said:
The speakers are all custom built by ATC ATC Loudspeakers. ATC Monitors. ATC SCM. ATC Speakers. Manufacturers of speakers, monitors, drive units and amplifiers.

The company is much better known for studio monitor systems but they beat out a couple of very respected manufacturers familiar to posters on this forum for this particular install.
Click to expand...

ATC is pretty premium stuff in the studio world, with outstanding performance, but priced well out of reach for most studio owners; for instance, the SCM110ASL sells for approx 18K per pair.


Frank - agreed, many of these halls which spend big bucks on acoustic design seem to be ending up with results that are less than ideal for sound reinforced events. There is a disconnect somewhere....
 
Re: The Bing-ing-ing-ing

Its amazing what you find when you google your own name...

Anyhow, Lee knows the deal (Hi Lee). And Frank, the "Bing Cherry" is a 4-sided cluster of speakers, also made by ATC. There are also 5, down facing ceiling speakers as well as the portable ground supported system. Fortunately, there are some variable acoustics curtains which help keep down reverberation. Unfortunately, the hall needs a lot more treatment for amplified performances, especially when the audience is full and seated around the rear of the stage.

Here are a couple more photos of the (bizarre) speakers. Over all, I like them a lot... for some applications. The first picture is one of the mains during unpacking and the second is the center cluster (stowed above the ceiling).

68479_4961464481561_135886559_n.jpg262069_4959439310933_1209949280_n.jpg
 
Re: The Bing-ing-ing-ing

Frank Koenig said:
Lee, thanks. Cool to know who made these speakers. I would have expected Meyer, as they have many high-end installs around the Bay.

There's another odd thing. It looks like an ~10 ft. diameter white artichoke flown above the center of the hall. It was not there for CCRMA, as I recall, but appeared for Reich. At first I thought it had to be a speaker cluster with some artsy custom grillework, but after looking at it a while I decided it's more likely a passive acoustic device. (Moreover it wasn't making any noise.) But its area is so small compared with the size of the room it's hard to imagine that it does much.

Next time I'm in there I'm getting pictures. And I'm hoping the San Francisco AES chapter will arrange an audio/acoustic tour sometime.

--Frank
Click to expand...

Frank,

I've had the distinct pleasure of meeting Billy Woodman, the founder of ATC. He's one of the good guys in the hifi world. Long on physics and short on hype. His soft dome midrange transducer is one of the finest drivers ever built. It measures and sounds fantastic, and has several innovative details to the magnetic return circuit. If I was in the market for high end studio loudspeakers, and were Fulcrum Acoustic not now making such a nice product for that space, the ATCs would be my personal choice.

I'm disappointed to see Billy's use of two tweeters in the large cabinet. He's fully aware of polar response and power response, which are not going to be well behaved in the top end with two tweeters. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt in terms of needing the additional output, or wanting the comb filtering for orchestra reproduction.
 
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